Hasan Abdel Rahman (PBS/NewsHour)

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Middle East Crisis
With PLO Ambassador Hasan Abdel Rahman
Thursday, Oct. 12, 2000; Noon EDT

Hasan Abdel Rahman, the chief Representative of the Palestinian Liberation Organization and the Palestinian National Authority in the United States, will be live online to talk about the crisis in the Middle East on Thursday, Oct. 12, at Noon EDT.

Abdel Rahman has represented the PLO and PNA in the United States since 1994, was a senior political adviser to the Palestinian delegation to the Madrid peace conference and the peace talks in Washington, D.C. Before that he served as director of the Palestine Affairs Center.

A graduate of the Catholic University of Puerto Rico, he has a masters degree in public administration from the University of Puerto Rico.

The transcript follows.

Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.

washingtonpost.com: Our guest today is Hasan Abdel Rahman, chief representative of the Palestinian National Authority and Palestine Liberation Organization, in the United States.

So. California: I don't think most people understand the sheer frustration, anguish and trauma Palestinians have experienced in 52 years of occupation and severe displacement.

This may not excuse some Palestinian behavior in the last few weeks, but considering that their every move and behavior is controlled by checkpoints and military surveillance, this sort of eruption is inevitable. ...

Would you say this helps us Americans understand the Palestinian perspective?

Hasan Abdel Rahman: There is no doubt that the conditions that the Palestinian people are living in are very difficult, both inside and outside the homeland, whether under occupation or as refugees. There was a hope, after so many years of deprivation and uprooting, that the peace process would bring a qualitative improvement to the lives of the Palestinian people and end those decades of expulsion and refugee life and allow them to live a dignified and free life. But after seven years of peace process the average Palestinian's life has not changed. On the contrary, except in certain circumstances, it has worsened. The Israeli occupation continued and the humiliation of the Palestinians persisted. Israel continued to behave toward the Palestinians as an occupying power, notwithstanding the agreements we had with signed with them. These conditions were tolerated, as long as there was a hope that the final status negotiations would change them.

But in the last few months, Israeli behavior around the negotiating table did not support this hope that Palestinians had. On the contrary, Israelis wanted to have sovereignty in Jerusalem over al-Aqsa mosque and al-Haran Shareef. Out of the 22 percent of historic Palestine that the Palestinians wanted for their new homeland, Israel wanted 11 percent. Also Israel did not want to accept any legal or moral responsibility for millions of Palestinian refugees in West Bank and Gaza and Arab countries. This is what created the frustrated.

The straw that broke the camel's back was Mr. Sharon's provocative visit to al-Haran Shareef.

Cincinnati, Ohio: The Palestinians have not kept faith with any of their agreements with Israel since Oslo. With the brutal murder of two Israeli soldiers inside a Palestinian Authority prison at the most tense time of peace negotiations, why should anyone think that Arafat and the PA want to make peace with Israel? What has been done to show that a Palestinian state desires PEACE, and not war?

Hasan Abdel Rahman: I believe this question turns the truth upside down. The truth is that Israel has not kept its promises or implemented the agreement we signed with Israel. For example, the release of Palestinian political prisoners and the redeployment of Israeli troops from West Bank and Gaza. There are 35 items which we submitted to the United States, items that Israel had not implemented.

As for the two Israeli soldiers in Ramallah, the Palestinian police tried to protect them but they were overpowered by the masses who have been subjected to Israeli bombardment and killing. Over 100 Palestinians have been killed and over 3,000 wounded. So notwithstanding the Palestinian police effort to save those soldiers, these men were in civilian clothes and had been sent by their commanders to assassinate certain leaders of the demonstrations. So the masses were very angry.

That does not in any way justify Israel's bombardment of Arafat's headquarters and other Palestinian installations. When 100 Palestinians were killed, the Palestinians did not bombard Mr. Barak or the Israeli Defense Ministry.

Los Angeles: I am a Palestinian American with family in Ramallah. What is the situation today at home after the Israeli attack? What can you tell us?

Hasan Abdel Rahman: The situation is very tense. Until a few minutes ago, Israel was bombarding certain sectors of Ramallah. There are demonstrations and expressions of anger by the Palestinian people.

Fairfax, Va.: The picture of the young Palestinian man holding up his hands covered with the blood of the recently executed Israeli soldiers to the cheers of the crowd below is one of the most disturbing images I've ever seen. How does the Palestinian Authority ever hope to garner sympathy, to paint the Israelis as the oppressors, when "neutral" people such as myself continue to get a stronger and stronger opinion that the Palestinians aren't interested in peace?

Hasan Abdel Rahman: You are getting the wrong impression. You have to look at what has happened in the last two weeks, and even before. Israel faces the peaceful demonstrators with artillery fire, helicopter-launched rockets, sniper bullets and sharpshooters. That is why we have suffered over 100 martyrs and 3,000 people wounded. Because Israel understands only the language of force when it deals with the Palestinians and the Arabs.

In fact, Israel was condemned by the international community for the excessive and inhumane attacks on the Palestinians.

washingtonpost.com: There has been a lot of talk about the U.N. resolution on the Mideast crisis. How do you respond to people who say it is one-sided?

Hasan Abdel Rahman: The resolution assessed the situation and came to the conclusion that Israel has violated international law and has been using excessive force in dealing with Palestinian civilian protestors. And this excessive force led to a very high number of civilian casualties. Thus the Security Council for its behavior and called for the establishment commission of inquiry to investigate.

Of course, Israel did not agree to submit to investigation by a neutral international commission. The United States, being an ally of Israel, wanted this resolution to be watered down or withdrawn. Finally, the United States allowed the resolution to pass by abstaining.

The U.S. presidential candidates who say the resolution was one-sided are competing for Jewish money and votes and, that's why they have to appease Israel by calling this resolution one-sided.

Skokie, Ill.: Why hasn't Yasser Arafat made a public appeal to his own people for trying to calm their anger down? If Arafat can't control his own people why should Israel negotiate with him?

Hasan Abdel Rahman: First of all, Israel is responsible for the violence and not the Palestinians. Why am I saying this? Because it is Israel that is firing at Palestinians in Palestinian towns and villages. Palestinians are not attacking Israelis in Israeli towns or villages. Here is a clear cut aggressor and a clear-cut victim. Therefore Yasser Arafat cannot ask the Palestinian people not to defend themselves or not to protest Israeli aggression. If Israel was serious and willing to end violence, all Israel has to do is withdraw its army from Palestinian territories.

Rockville, Md.: Does the Palestinian Authority agree to the U.N. being in charge of the holy sites in Jerusalem?

Hasan Abdel Rahman: This is a very complex question. The issue is not only of the holy places, but it is also the issue of East Jerusalem which was occupied in 1967 where Moslem and Christian holy places are located. We and the international community -- including the United States by the way -- believe that Israel's unilateral annexation of East Jerusalem was illegal and was rejected by all the countries of the world. So the issue of the holy places falls in this context. You cannot deal with the issue separately from the national sovereignty issue. That's why the answer to your question cannot be answered yes or no.

Laurel, Md.: What what I understand, Barak offered to split Jerusalem at the Camp David summit. This was farther then any Israeli leader has ever gone, but Arafat would not match him. Why is that?

Hasan Abdel Rahman: Jerusalem has two sides. One side was under Israeli control before 1967, West Jerusalem. And there is East Jerusalem, which was under Palestinian, Arab control until 1967. The Israelis wanted to keep their exclusive control over the West Side and divide what is ours between them and us.

We proposed to Israel that we were willing to recognize their control over West Jerusalem, if Israel recognized our sovereignty over East Jerusalem, and that the two sections of the city could be united in an open city that would be united, accessible and open to all people. The west side of Jerusalem would be recognized as the capital of the state of Israel and East Jerusalem would be the capital of Palestine.

Israel refused.

Washington, D.C.: The peace process, like any negotiation, requires compromise on both sides to reach a just and fair conclusion. Israel has handed over to the Palestinian Authority much of the West Bank and Barak is reported to have offered virtually the whole of the West Bank plus the Arab and Armenian quarters of Jerusalem.

Are prepared to renounce, as a representative of the Palestinian people, all claims on Israel inside the "Green Line"?

Hasan Abdel Rahman: We agreed with Israel and proposed to Israel that the 1967 borders would be the borders of the state of Palestine. This includes the West Bank and Gaza, which constitute only 22 percent of the historic land of Palestine. And we accepted Israel on 78 percent of the land of Palestine. So we have made a historic compromise that is unprecedented for the sake of peace.

But Israel wanted to retain the 78 percent and share with us part of the 22 percent. And this is why it was not possible to reach an agreement at Camp David.

Reston, Va.: You claim that the Israelis are firing on "peaceful protesters" (to use your own words). How can you call rock-throwing, fire-bombing mobs and AK-47-toting gunmen "peaceful demonstrators?"

Hasan Abdel Rahman: The demonstrations are in the face of an Israeli army with tanks and rockets. Any objective observer will note the difference between a tank and a civilian with a stone in his hand. That civilian facing that tank is absolutely an unarmed civilian. People express their anger by throwing stones at Israeli. If someone throws stones at the police in the United States, the United States does not bring in tanks and helicopters to kill those demonstrators.

San Francisco, Calif.:

Do you believe that the U.S. has been an honest broker in the negotiations, as was claimed by both Mr. Gore and Gov. Bush?

Hasan Abdel Rahman: The United States is a very important broker but the United States is not impartial or objective because the United States is an ally of Israel. So the United States, by definition, is not impartial. It is an important broker and we recognize the importance of its role.

Reston, Va.: Sir, how can you justify the violence being committed by your people as we speak? And secondly, are you surprised by the violence and unrest among Israeli Arabs?

Hasan Abdel Rahman: I have spoken of the conditions under which the Palestinian people live which led inevitably to the frustration and the explosion which has taken place. The cause has been the Israeli use of firepower, initiated on Sept. 29 in Arab Jerusalem, when Israel fired at the demonstrators, killing six people and wounding 200, and then the execution-style killing of the 12-year-old boy on the lap of his father and many other killings. So the Palestinian masses are furious and the Israel serial killing of Palestinians is continuing.

As far as the protests of Palestinians inside Israel, although they are Israeli citizens they have suffered decades of discrimination, in all aspects of their lives, and they felt that Sharon's visit to al-Aqsa mosque was provocative. What added insult to injury for them was that when they protested they were fired at--by their own police.

washingtonpost.com: Many questioners are blaming the violence on the Palestinians. You have repeatedly replied that virtually all of the victims, dead and wounded, are Palestinians. Is there anything you can say to the critical questioners to get them to see the reality of the situation from your point of view?

Hasan Abdel Rahman: I think the American people have been subjected to biased coverage of the events, which is not the case in the international media. It is only in the American media. I believe that the repeated allegations by Israel has been internalized to the point that the only voice that is being heard is the Israeli voice, not the Palestinian voice. People are being subjected to a campaign of misinformation.

But any neutral observer would look at footage of young Palestinians with stones or sticks in their hands facing the Israeli army which is the strongest army in the region. So it is in conceivable that the young Palestinian civilians, maybe throwing stones, are the aggressors while the soldiers in Israeli tanks and the Israeli sharpshooters are the victims.

It is really a perverted logic to even raise the question. How can any Palestinian stone reach a helicopter firing rockets at a crowd?

Silver Spring, Md.: I think that any armed conflict between people who have to occupy the same real estate is unfortunate. However, I have a problem about the children. I am a mother of three (now) adult children. If there had been rioting in the streets of my town, I would never have allowed them outside of the house. How can you condemn Israel for harming children when someone is allowing those children to be outside in the thick of all the fighting?

Hasan Abdel Rahman: Palestinian parents don't send their children to the street. Palestinian children are like any other children. They children go to school, go to the supermarket, walk in the streets. So instead of condemning them for being there, we need to condemn those who fire at them indiscriminately.

The boy who was killed yesterday in Gaza was carrying his books and coming home from school. The boy who was killed in the lap of his father was being protected by father.

You cannot excuse under any circumstances, the criminal behavior of Israeli soldiers and the ease by which they fire at children, or adults for that matter.

Arlington, Va.: Do you believe that the Arab nations will intervene in aiding the defense of the Palestinian people? If so, at what point of escalation of this situation will the Arab nations intervene? ...Do you believe, if the situation escalates, that the Arab summit on Oct. 21 will be of any use in avoiding a direct confrontation?

Hasan Abdel Rahman: The Arab masses are very angry at what is happening to their Palestinian brothers. So I think the Arab summit will take decisions to support the Palestinian people but I don't know how those are going to be formulated.

washingtonpost.com: Is it possible for the Palestinian and Israeli governments and negotiating teams to now talk to each other with the minimal level of trust and respect that is needed for the peace process?

Hasan Abdel Rahman: Until recently we have had very cordial relations between the Palestinian and Israeli negotiators. There was mutual respect until two weeks ago when Israel started shooting at Palestinian civilians and killing them. Since then there has been an escalation of confrontation and attack.

We hope the Israeli government will stop the logic of force and resort to the force of logic instead so we can return to the negotiations to try to reach an agreement, if it is not too late.

washingtonpost.com: Is it too late?

Hasan Abdel Rahman: I think with bombardment of the headquarters of Yasser Arafat and the attack on other Palestinian installations, Israel is declaring a war. The ramifications of this aggression is going to be assessed. To be honest with you, I don't know how it is going to affect the possibility of resuming the negotiations.

washingtonpost.com: That was our last question today for Hasan Abdel Rahman. Thanks to everyone who joined us.