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The First Counsel
Author Brad Meltzer
Monday, Jan. 8, 2001; Noon EST

Brad Meltzer's third and latest novel, The First Counsel, delves behind the walls of the White House and shows readers what it is like to date the President's daughter. Based on extensive research and interviews with White House insiders, including one First Daughter, the writing of his new book became a story itself.

Brad Meltzer

New York Times best selling author Brad Meltzer is online to discuss his new novel, what it means to be a writer and the legal thriller genre.

The transcript follows...

Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.

washigntonpost.com: Welcome. With us today is Brad Meltzer, author of "The Tenth Justice" and "Dead Even." His new book, "The First Counsel," is about a lawyer who is dating the President's Daughter. Let's get started.

Somewhere, USA: I read the article in the post about your book? Did you ever think of giving up because of the Lewinski mess?

Brad Meltzer: I thought about it -- I had sent up all these White House interviews -- and the week I was supposed to go in, the Lewinsky fiasco exploded and every door slammed in my face. Within 2 weeks, though, people realized I wasn't there for the expose -- I just wanted the fun stuff (where to eat, where to hide, how to sneak into the White House, etc).

Arlington, VA: What kind of research did you do for the book? What sort of "inside sources" did you use?

Brad Meltzer: Since the book is about a White House lawyer dating the President's daughter, I first went for all the Presidential daughters I could find. Needless to say, they weren't a group that was willing to talk -- except for one, who actually agreed.

Beyond that, I also went to people who were nannies to First Daughters, White House staffers, people in the White House Counsel's Office -- because I wanted to get that part realistic too -- and anyone else I could find. Of course, the real itty-bitty-nitty-gritty was handed over by former Secret Service agents, who were really the best sources (and nicest guys) out there. They're the ones who did most of the Secret tunnels, hidden doors and passageways, etc.

Washington, D.C.: I've heard about coincidences between your book and other works of pop culture -- not to mention real life. Have you felt compelled to change aspects of your story or names in the book to avoid comparisons? How do you keep people from thinking you cribbed from the other works?

Brad Meltzer: It's hard -- when I wrote the book, The West Wing was just hitting the air -- I had a character running for president named "Bartlett" -- they had a press named "Bartlett." The First Counsel has been done for almost a year and I easily could've changed it, but truthfully, I didn't want to change it for anyone. Now, it's just a wink and a nod to the show.

Washington, D.C.: Where do you get your ideas when writing?

Brad Meltzer: Reasearch and more research. The more you look at a place like the White House, the more you realize what you can do with it as a setting. Of course, lots of ideas also come from hours of brainstorming with my wife and friends. The rest -- since it defies logic -- is a gift from God. That's the only way I can explain it.

Washington, D.C.: What was the biggest obstacle you encountered in setting up the plot?

Brad Meltzer: Trying to make it fit into reality. Sure, it's fiction, but fiction is at it's best when it has one foot in reality. I wanted to get the president's daughter story just right -- which meant I couldn't have her running around in public like a wild woman. I had to keep within the confines of her own "true" existence," if that makes any sense...

Hidden tunnel, Va.: What sort of hidden doors, tunnels, etc. did you find out about? Where are they?

Brad Meltzer: There's a hidden door on the second floor outside of the Queens' Bedroom. As for the tunnel and the rest, read the book -- I'm not ruining the scene... :)

Silver Spring, Md.: Did any former First Children talk to you about their experiences?

Brad Meltzer: One did. But out of respect for her privacy, I'm not saying who. A tease, I know, but that's the truth.

Arlington, Va.: Do political books tend to do better in election years?

Brad Meltzer: I hope so.

Washington, D.C.: How did you research this book? Did you talk to Secret Service agents or White House folks to get an idea of how dating a member of the First Family would work?

Brad Meltzer: See above question...

Washington, D.C.: Why do you find it so appealing to begin the title of your books with a number? Your first book was The Tenth Justice. Now it's The First Counsel. What's next? The Fifth Senator? The Twentieth Congressman? The Thirty-third Associate Deputy Attorney General? The Fortieth Deputy Associate Attorney General? The Ninety-Ninth FEMA Administrator?

Brad Meltzer: And don't forget Dead Even, which is now re-titled "The Second Book."

Truthfully, I'm not going for the whole Sue-Grafton-of-numbers thing. The title just fit. Period. Though I do like The Ninety-Ninth FEMA Administrator! Or for my wife -- The Twenty-Seventh House Judiciary Lawyer...

Washington, DC: Who was the most interesting person that you interviewed for your research for The First Counsel?

Brad Meltzer: Oh, now you're asking me to rank people. Okay, let's do it -- here's who I liked in perfect order (from most loved to most hated):

Wait, I can't do that -- then the Secret Service guys get all mad and open files on me so I can't fly on commercial airlines...

In all seriousness, the most fascinating people are the ones at the lower level of the White House -- they're the ones who make the show go. And they're the ones who truly know how the place operates. Beyond that, the one First Daughter I interviewed truly fascinated me -- simply because of all the choreography (sp?) it took to get there.

Alexandria, Va.: How much do you feel certain influences, like Hollywood movies and TV shows like "The West Wing" affect interest in books set in Washington and in politics?

Brad Meltzer: It's all a big food chain. If Hollywood's buying, people will be writing.

The thing is, when I started The First Counsel, the Lewinsky story overshadowed everything and no one would touch the White House in fiction. Of course, dumb me, I was already into my research. Who would've guessed, two years later, The West Wing would be one of the most interesting shows on TV. There was no planning on my part -- I just got lucky.

Somewhere, USA: Are they going to make a film out of this book?

Brad Meltzer: That depends if someone buys the rights. The Tenth Justice has been bought and they're working on the script, but so far, we haven't heard on The First Counsel or Dead Even. Time will tell, considering the book comes out tomorrow.

Fairfax VA: What did your contacts (including the daughter you spoke with) have to say about having a romantic relationship under constant surveillance? Is it even possible?

Brad Meltzer: It's certainly possible -- when Gerald Ford was President, his daughter Susan married a Secret Service agent. Also, in the last few months, the Post reported that Chelsea's boyfriend from Stanford had a job in the White House. Too close to The First Counsel? Maybe, but I'll take it anyday.

Somewhere, USA: Were there things you found out that you felt you couldn't put in the novel for security sake? Can you tell us? (we're all friends here... right?)

Brad Meltzer: Okay, big group hug.

And for the answer -- no, I put most of it in -- I did ask my Secret Service source to read it and see if there was anything that made him uncomfortable, but to my surprise, he was okay with it. In his words, if I could figure this out from my home office in DC, then it couldn't be that hard. Makes sense, right? :)

Arlington VA: I kind of worry about the Bush's daughters. They are 18 year old Freshmen in college... how easy is it for them to get into trouble? Do the daughters have people watching them constantly? What do you think their life will be like?

Brad Meltzer: Very easy for them to get into trouble....

Chelsea was a twelve year old -- the Bush girls are nineteen. That's all the difference. Sure, people are watching them constantly, but the trouble comes from friends. They're the ones who'll leak all the gossip. Mark my words, these girls are first-years at college. Remember what it was like to be 19? Stupid things get done. And when they do, the whole world will be watching.

As for what their life will be like, the Secret Service will try their best to make it normal, but when was the last time you had two armed bodyguards walking around with you from party to party at college. "Oh, just ignore that big burly man in the corner..."

Anyway, let's hope I'm wrong, but I think the press will bite hard.

Fairfax VA: Will we see the same sense of humor in this book as we saw in Dead Even and The 10th Justice (with Laugh Out Loud moments such as "holy tongue in cheek, Batman!) or is this a more serious look, considering the obvious respect you have for the First Daughter you interviewed? Your responses so far today seem to exhibit the same sense of humor, so hopefully it's present in First Counsel as well.

PS -- I did that fake engagement gag in a local paper on a pair of friends. V

Brad Meltzer: You're my new hero. I've been waiting years to really do the fake engagement gag.

As for humor, I can't help myself. It's what I know. And if I can't laugh at myself, then I got no business sitting here and typing in my underwear.

Somewhere, USA: Does the Washington Press Corps play any role in your new book?

Brad Meltzer: It's the White House -- so they're there. We need some villains, don't we? (hint, hint). But it's just a minor part.

wdc: Were you allowed to go into the White House?

Brad Meltzer: That was the best part of the research -- I saw the movie theater (ugly Elvis-meets-Dollywood curtains), the Oval, all the West Wing, the kitchen, flower shop, most of the rooms on the lower 2 floors, and even the attic of the OEOB across the street.

When we went up there, my guide said, "Do you want to see the President's bedroom?" Of course I did -- momma didn't raise no dummy. So I press my hands and face against the glass, peer outside, and then see the Secret Service camera that's staring straight at me. Slowly, I pull back and notice the fingerprints I've now left. (Genius, right?) Oh, well, everyone should have a secret file opened on them -- all in the name of good fiction. (And that's where I set a key scene for the book).

Fairfax VA: Have you read "Transfer of Power" by Vince Flynn, I believe? While the plots differ greatly, his book also makes great use of underground passages and hidden staircases and lifts in the White House. I was just curious if you shared data with him, or vice versa, in your background research.

Brad Meltzer: Actually, Vince and I kept comparing notes to make sure we weren't getting disinformation from the Secret Service (sort of like literary CIA group). He's a great guy and I highly recommend his books.

DC: The usual struggling writer question: How do I get someone to take a look at my first novel?

Enjoy your work and thank you

Brad Meltzer: Thanks for the kind words. As for the answer, this format only allows me to type relatively quick answers, but if you check out www.bradmeltzer.com, there's a whole section on writing and finding an agent (under "Q&A" and also on the "Message Board.")

The short answer, though, is: don't let anyone tell you "No." I got twenty-four rejection letters on my first novel which is still sitting on my shelf. The Tenth Justice is actually my second novel (though first published). All it takes is one person to say yes -- and you already "won" by writing your book. That's all that matters.

Truthfully, though, check out the web site -- I spent a long time trying to give good advice. E-mail me if what's on there doesn't answer your question. And I wish you only the best with it.

Arlington: boxers or briefs? (ugh... unintentional legal thriller joke)

Brad Meltzer: Oh, any no underwear isn't an option these days? Who's gonna fight for those people? Where are their rights? That's right -- cry all you want -- you know what I'm talking about. Crime isn't just something you see on the MTV. Reality hurts -- and bites -- and even gnaws, especially with the back molars, and those sharp Dracula teeth, whatever those are called.

Does that answer your question?

Fairfax VA: Regarding that first novel ... any chance of talking you into putting it up online at your Web site for loyal readers to check out? Maybe a couple of paragraphs to help you gauge if there's interest in trying to release it?

Brad Meltzer: Now that's something to think about. We'll see...

Baltimore: I know you're here to talk about your new book, but I loved "The Tenth Justice"!!! living in DC during college and several years later, it's a bit scary how much I was able to relate with the diverse careers of the roommates and how that played a roll in their time at home with one another. Did you write the premise based on any of your own situations living in DC?

Brad Meltzer: I think anyone who's ever lived in DC has lived through the group-house-lots-of-friends-doing-stupid-things-and-not-bathing phase. Am I right? That's where I pulled it from. Glad you enjoyed it -- and thanks for the oh-so-kind words.

Somewhere, USA: Perhaps I should know this question, is this book in the stores yet? I looked it up on line and found nothing! This is the first I've heard of you (keep in mind I very seldomly read).

Brad Meltzer: The First Counsel comes out tomorrow nationwide (your bookstores has them in the backroom right now). You can buy it now at amazon or barnesandnoble.com -- or everywhere tomorrow. For a sneak peek, check out www.bradmeltzer.com, which has free first chapters from all three books, including The First Counsel. And when you read it, let me know what you think.

Chevy Chase, MD: In all of your books, you seem to take the reader behind the scenes of a place they have not been before. In The Tenth Justice, it was the Supreme Court, in Dead Even, it was the District Attorney's office, and now, in The First Counsel, it is the White House. Why do you do this, and what do you think it adds to your novels?

Brad Meltzer: I think I'm just a details junkie, so I love pulling back the curtain and seeing what's inside. Also, it's an easy way to keep things fresh for myself so I don't become that writer who just writes with a formula.

Washington, D.C.: As political books -- particularly political "thrillers" -- go, what's your favorite?

Brad Meltzer: No idea -- I've never read one. Really. I don't read in my own genre -- it makes me nuts.

Fairfax VA: Humorous diatribe aside, I believe the question from Arlington was in direct response to your claim that you were sitting there typing in your underwear. With that said, I think "none" would NOT be an option for the specific question

Brad Meltzer: Yes, Watson, you are indeed correct in pointing out my obvious attempt to subtly sidestep the question.

Boxer-briefs. (Mom, don't read this).

Austin, TX: What was your favorite movie of last year?

Brad Meltzer: The last year is movies was just plain disappointing. But Crouching Tiger was really cool.

New York, N.Y.: Who are your literary influences?

Brad Meltzer: I love graphic novels, so I'll go with Neil Gaiman, Alan Moore, Frank Miller -- it sounds weird, but that's who I love to read. I stay away from the genre.

Ann Arbor, MI: Has President Clinton read this book or any of your earlier books? I've read that he likes mysteries.

Brad Meltzer: He does. Don't know if he's read this one yet.

Fairfax VA: Slightly off-topic: yesterday's Washington Post Magazine had a feature article on an EEOC lawsuit filed by African-American Secret Service agents. Did you get any sense of a bias, or a degree of animosity in your travails and interviews in the White House? It's a bit troubling knowing that the people protecting our president ... might have their minds on job troubles.

Brad Meltzer: I didn't see that at all -- but I have no business commenting because I was only talking to former agents.

With that said, thanks for all the great questions. If you have any more, you can e-mail me at www.bradmeltzer.com (which also has lots of fun propaganda to read).

Brad