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'Trail of a Terrorist'
With Terence McKenna
Correspondent, "Frontline"
Friday, Oct. 26, 2001; 11 a.m. EDT
The method of the Sept. 11 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon -- hijacking of commercial jetliners and turning them into weapons -- was shocking, the stuff of fiction. But seven years ago, terrorists from the GIA, or Algerian "Armed Islamic Group," hijacked an Air France jet and unsuccessfully tried to crash it into the Eiffel Tower. The group, often linked to Osama bin Laden, later became notorious for a series of bombing attacks on the Paris Metro. On the eve of the new millennium, they set their sights on the U.S. -- and one terrorist very nearly succeeded in crossing the U.S./Canadian border with a homemade bomb.
In "Trail of a Terrorist," airing on PBS Thursday, Oct. 25 at 9 p.m., Frontline follows convicted terrorist and GIA
member Ahmed Ressam, from his illegal entrance into Canada and indoctrination into the GIA, to his education in Osama bin Laden's terrorist training camps in Afghanistan and his failed plot to bomb Los Angeles International Airport. The film is a special investigation by the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC).
Award-winning producer and journalist Terence McKenna will be online to talk about what he learned on Friday, Oct. 26, at 11 a.m. EDT.
The transcript follows.
Based in Montreal, McKenna has reported extensively on Canadian and Quebec politics, and produced CBC documentaries including "Ground Zero," which marked the 50th anniversary of the bombing of Hiroshima, in 1995; "Handover in Hong Kong," in 1997; and "Return to My Lai," in 1998. In 1992, McKenna narrated and co-authored the award-winning, controversial, six-hour CBC-NFB documentary series, "The Valour and The Horror." Prior to his career in television, which began in 1981, he was a field producer for CBC radio. McKenna covered national and international politics and followed Pierre Trudeau and Joe Clark through two federal election campaigns and Ted Kennedy, John Anderson, Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan through the 1980 U.S. election.
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washingtonpost.com: Good morning, Terence, and thanks for joining us. Your film raised many questions and concerns about Canadian border and immigration policies. Is it fair to say that Canada is a safe harbor for terrorists? And given Canada's position as an ally of the U.S. in the war on terrorism, what kind of pressure do you expect to see from the U.S. toward Canada on those policies?
Terence McKenna: I think we're already seeing the pressure on Canada from the United States -- we have been seeing it for some time. Inasmuch as Canada was a safe harbor for terrorist, obviously it was not a willing decision. These terrorists were coming to Canada and taking advantage of generous refugee and immigration regulations. And perhaps Canada was not fast enough in addressing the problems. But what you see now is the Canadian government acting quite firmly on these issues. Until Sept. 11, I think it's fair to say that most Western governments, including the United States, were underestimating the terrorist threat.
Sarasota, Fla.: After viewing the show about Ressam, it makes me wonder what in the world were we waiting for in clearing out these terrorist training camps? It was clear that they were going to hit us sooner or later. Where was the leadership on this before Sept. 11? Where was the press? Why was this issue SILENT during the election? It seems so clear this was a serious and active threat. Why did the show not air before Sept. 11?
Terence McKenna: In order to clear out the terrorist training camps in Afghanistan, you have to launch cruise missiles at another country, which is an act of war. And this is not something you undertake without strong international support and a broad coalition. President Clinton did launch cruise missiles at the bin Laden training camps on several occasions, and bin Laden bragged that he was hundreds of miles away when the cruise missiles landed, and that they didn't do much damage. So cleaning out the camps is easier said than done.
I think it is true that the media and government agencies underestimated the importance of the Ahmed Ressam story. I think one of the reasons for that is that the public didn't seem very interested in it. When I attended the Ressam trial in Los Angeles in the spring, the story was moving to the back of the newspapers. I think people thought that this guy was caught, and so we don't have to worry about him any more. Clearly, both the media and the public were mistaken.
Alexandria, Va.: A witness in the recent embassy bombing trials said that he escorted a bin Laden operative on a fund-raising tour of American mosques in the early 1990s.
Are terrorists still able to raise money in American mosques?
Terence McKenna: The documentary revealed that there was some terrorist support activities happening in mosques in Canada. I did not investigate the situation with American mosques, and so I can't speak to that. I think we have to realize that there is an important minority in the Islamic world, including in the United States and Canada, that is interested in supporting the international jihad against the perceived enemies of Islam. It's a very sensitive point, but one that law enforcement agencies are clearly going to have to pay more attention to.
Alexandria, Va.: Here in Northern Virginia a local Somali cab driver was taken into custody in part because his name and phone number were scrawled on a map that one of the hijackers owned.
Was Mr. Ressam known to trust or work with non-Arabs such as Somalis?
Terence McKenna: Ressam certainly worked with some non-Arabs. In his testimony, he described people from many nationalities attending the bin Laden training camps. Intelligence sources in Canada have identified connections to Ressam, including people from Mauritania, Somalia, Senegal and many other countries.
Hixson, Tenn.: Ahmed Ressam for a period of time enjoyed the social benefits of Canada. He received welfare and housing as "Benni Norris." From all accounts, a vast improvement from his previous surroundings. How can terrorists like Ressam or those involved in the Sept. 11 attacks live in and experience our culture, with even some overt expressions of enjoyment, and still have such an intense desire to destroy our way of life?
Terence McKenna: Ahmed Ressam was once arrested trying to steal an Armani suit in Montreal. He wore the best Italian shoes. When he was caught, he had in his possession DKNY pants, a Nike jacket, Tommy Hilfiger sweaters. So while he favored the best cars and the best clothes and the best consumer goods America has to offer, he saw no contradiction whatsoever to at the same time be planning his attack against America. I don't think I can really explain it.
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada: Governments are notorious for their crisis management styles (worry about present fires and not fire prevention). Do you feel that the U.S. and Canadian governments (with various pre-eminent warnings from knowledgeable specialists in terrorism behavior) are guilty of just another "don't worry about it until it happens attitude?" And if that is the case do you see future legal ramifications against government organizations based on the events of Sept. 11?
Terence McKenna: On the last part of the question, I really don't feel well qualified to comment on the possibility of future lawsuits. I do think that governments and the media underestimated the threat, but as I've said before, I think the public underestimated it too. Obviously I believe that law enforcement agencies should now review all the warnings of this type of activity that were received, and should review even the warnings that did not seem credible a few months ago.
In the documentary, a key terrorism investigator, Judge Jean-Louis Brugiere is cited as one who has been warning for years of the growing global threat of trans-national Islamic extremist terrorism. And I think everybody will be paying a lot more attention to the things he has to say.
Mt. Lebanon, Pa.: Did you learn anything about the propensity for Quebec, a place troubled with its own internal terrorism, to wink at if not outright allow, the exported terrorism of other former French colonies? My question is predicated on remembering all of the animosity and heart burn that Rene Levesque and his nihilists (Parti Quebecois) used to cause that schizophrenic and isolated province. Thanks much.
Terence McKenna: I really don't think that the political divisions in Quebec on the issue of separatism had anything to do with this story.
Roanoke, Va.: What reduction in sentence did Ressam receive in return for his cooperation?
Terence McKenna: His sentencing has been delayed twice, so we don't know the answer to the question yet. He is presently scheduled for sentencing in February.
Silver Spring, Md.: Can you talk a bit about what goes on in the terrorist training camps? Are they propagandizing as well as providing military training, or are the people who go to them true believers at the start?
Terence McKenna: From the information we've gathered, many of the recruits spend the first two weeks in intensive religious training and what looks like indoctrination. After that, they move on to small arms training. And then to the use of more sophisticated weapons, such as rocket-propelled grenades and small missile launchers. Ahmed Ressam, for example, then moved on to intensive training in the handling of explosives, which occurred in another camp. He learned how to prepare the nitroglycerin-type explosive compounds. He brought back to North America a small recipe book with recipes for many different kinds of explosives. He was regularly consulting with others in Montreal about the recipes as he was constructing the bomb. The last thing he did before he left the hotel room was to pour nitric acid on his recipe book to destroy it. He also testified that he received detailed training to prepare assassination attempts. He learned how to stalk his victims, noting every detail of their daily schedule. I think the most astonishing element in his testimony concerned the training to use poison gas. He gave a detailed description of the killing of small dogs using cyanide gas. He admitted that the purpose of his poison gas training was to plan the release of poison gas like cyanide into the air intakes of U.S. government buildings. This is the level of training that thousands of jihad soldiers have received in the bin Laden camps.
Orting High School, Wash.: Our World History Class is reading the discussion right now because we live about 40 minutes away from Seattle and we heard rumors that the Space Needle was a target. If he would have crossed safely into the U.S. and had set a bomb off at the Space Needle, would the U.S. assume bin Laden and retaliate like we have on the Sept. 11 attacks?
Terence McKenna: The reason that police originally believed that his target was the Space Needle was that he had booked a hotel room for his first night in the United States that was just two blocks from the Space Needle. It was only after his trial last spring that Ressam confirmed that his actual target was the Los Angeles International Airport. Once his false identity as Benni Norris was discovered, police quickly established, by examining travel records, that Ressam had been to Pakistan and into the bin Laden training camps. I think we can safely assume that any connection to bin Laden in a successful terrorist attack would have brought a similar response from the United States.
Tallahassee, Fla.: Through your investigate reporting, have you found that the U.S. government has been successful in averting a large number of terrorist attempts we the public have never heard about? Or do you think after Sept. 11 they have just begun to take seriously the threat of terrorism on U.S. soil?
Terence McKenna: At the same time that Ahmed Ressam was arrested, law enforcement and intelligence agents in Jordan foiled yet another plot against Americans in Jordan, people who were scheduled to be killed at a millennium celebration in Jordan on New Year's Eve. I do believe that there are dozens of plots foiled and we never hear about them.
Paris, Ontario, Canada: Good morning Terence. Although I do agree Canada's very liberal policies concerning refugees does need reexamining, I believe this documentary just succeeds in fanning the flames that only Canada's policies need looking at. I believe most if not all the hijackers of Sept. 11 were living and working in the U.S and not by-way of Canada. Do you also think that the U.S. needs to clean up its own immigration policies?
Terence McKenna: I think that Canada, like the United States, is a country of immigrants. I think all Western countries need immigrants, and are morally obligated to provide refuge to political refugees. We have to find a way to do that and plug up the holes in the security screen, and I think it's a very good point -- that it is not Canada alone that has this problem. All Western countries have the problem to some degree. I think there are other ways to address the security problems than just tightening up on immigration and refugee regulations. Logan Airport in Boston has just announced that they will be installing face recognition technology. Other airports will be installing new fingerprint technology. All of these new sophisticated methods will be brought on stream to determine that people really are who they say they are.
Washington, D.C.: We've been obsessed with the idea that U.S. airport restrictions and procedures are lax -- but clearly that's a worldwide thing. How on earth was Ressam able to travel with chemicals for use in making bombs?
Terence McKenna: In fact, most of the security screening at airports involves luggage that is carried onto the plane. Airlines are much less rigorous in examining luggage that goes in the baggage hold. There is also a certain amount of luck involved. In the United States and in Canada, you sometimes see small dogs sniffing at luggage. The dogs are trained to detect both drugs and explosives. Ressam did carry some explosive components in his luggage as he passed through Los Angeles International Airport, Vancouver and Montreal. He was lucky that the dogs did not stop at his luggage.
Chicago, Ill.: I know this topic is probably a classified one -- but I have to ask!
Is there any idea as to the number of sleeper agents that may be in the United States? Has this subject ever been broached with Mr. Ressam, and if so, has he responded and has that response been publicized?
Terence McKenna: Police sources in Washington State have revealed that Ressam was re-interrogated after Sept. 11, and that he did provide some new information about sleeper cells in Northern America. The police sources did not reveal any numbers involved.
Austin, Tex.: Have law enforcement officials found it easy to "turn" terrorists against their cells and obtain information?
Terence McKenna: I'm not an expert in this area. But in my experience so far, no part of these investigations has been easy.
Orting, Wash.: Do the facts of the recent attacks against America suggest that Saddam Hussein or anything associated with Iraq had a role to play in the Sept. 11 attacks or even the possible anthrax scare in the U.S.? If so would our military rule out attacks on Iraq in fear of chemical warfare?
Terence McKenna: This is perhaps the most sensitive point. Police sources have described two meetings which allegedly took place in Prague between Mohammed Atta and known Iraqi intelligence agents. I noticed that yesterday Sen. Bob Graham of Florida emphasized that no solid link to Iraq has yet been established. But everybody is waiting for more information from the Iraq investigation. There is a debate among the people involved in the Iraqi weapons inspection program about Iraq's probable complicity in the anthrax attacks. Coincidentally, the PBS program "Frontline" is preparing a new program on that topic, which will be broadcast in the weeks ahead.
Providence, R.I.: Great show last night. My husband remembered that a co-worker (Algerian) had his passport out in his cubicle one day -- my husband had just dropped by and noticed that it had a different name/same picture of the co-worker. He asked his co-worker about this and the guy said something about it being his mother's family name. Should he tell this to someone?
Terence McKenna: One problem is that many, many immigrants, for one reason or another, have multiple identification documents in different names. We can't jump to the conclusion that they are in any way connected to terrorism. But obviously, police investigators are interested in looking more closely at every such case.
Seattle, Wash.: Rassam and his partner in Vancouver seem to have gone out of their way (two ferry boat crossings) to enter the U.S. at Port Angeles. Did he ever explain his reasons for this? There are several other "sleepy" entry points along the border that could be reached easily as well.
Terence McKenna: We've heard that several terrorist suspects have focused on smaller entry points along the Canada-U.S. border in the belief that less attention would be paid to them. In this case, that assumption was obviously mistaken.
Fairfax, Va.: What is the rational behind not making public any foiled terrorist plots? Wouldn't this inspire public confidence, or would it tip the hand of law enforcement agencies?
Terence McKenna: Any intelligence service wants to conceal its methods of detecting terrorist plots in hopes that the same method would work again. There is always a delicate balance in the intelligence game about when to reveal your hand. In the Ressam case, for example, Canadian intelligence agents were monitoring the activities of Ressam and his friends in their Montreal apartment. Their dilemma was this: was it better to arrest Ressam and his friends as soon as they found out about them from French intelligence sources, or was it better to tap their telephones and follow them to try to find out everything they were planning?
The downside in this case was that when they finally decided to arrest Ressam, he had changed identities and had disappeared.
Albuquerque, N.M.: Ressam was arrested four times in Canada before he was stopped at the U.S. border and admitted to having been arrested for arms and terrorist charges in Algeria. The Canadian immigration authorities interviewed in the story seemed to think the system worked as intended. Is the Canadian public in agreement with that point of view or is there public pressure to make substantial changes?
(Obviously there are similar problems in the .S. but the pressure to change them looks likely to be effective.)
Terence McKenna: I think that many Canadians were astonished at how easily Ahmed Ressam took advantage of Canadian immigration and refugee policies, and that there was apparently no price attached to his criminal activities in Montreal, at least when it came to determining his refugee status. The Canadian minister of immigration did admit in the documentary that mistakes were made, and that the law had to be changed so that the Ressam model would not be repeated. And she has introduced new legislation to address some of these problems.
Pittsburgh, Pa.: Based on your experiences with terrorists, do you think those being detained will provide details about future attacks? Are the Canadian people concerned about anthrax?
Terence McKenna: I think the Ahmed Ressam case is very instructive in that respect. In his first hours in custody, he would not say a single word to the Customs agents and police officers attempting to question him. He remained silent through his entire trial in Los Angeles, except on one occasion when the judge asked him if he understood that he had the right to testify in his own defense and was choosing not to do that. I was sitting 10 feet from him when he rose to face the jury and was pronounced guilty. It was only at that moment that he started to tremble. And for the first time in the courtroom, it became clear that he feared the full weight of American justice. It was only when he was pronounced guilty and faced 130 years in U.S. prisons that he finally started to talk to police investigators. He apparently wanted to get out of jail before he died, even if it was more than 27 years from now.
I do think the Ressam case shows that the will of the terrorists, even if they have been intensively trained and indoctrinated, can be broken.
washingtonpost.com:
That wraps up today's show. Thanks to everyone who joined the
discussion.
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