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Post Magazine
This week: Students In The Dark
With Marc Kaufman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, Feb. 26, 2001; 1 p.m. EST

For years, high schools in the Washington area and across the country have rung their starting bells earlier and earlier. Only recently have sleep researchers grasped the effects on students. Which raises the question: Why does high school have to start so early?

Marc Kaufman, whose cover article "Sleepless in Suburbia" appeared in Sunday's Washington Post Magazine, will be online Monday, Feb. 26, at 1 p.m. to field questions and comments about the article.

Kaufman is a Washington Post National staff writer, covering issues of health and science. He previously worked for one year in the Post Health section.

Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.

Marc Kaufman: Good afternoon. I look forward to receiving your questions and discussing the subject of high school start times and how they effect our teenagers. I currently have a freshman at a Montgomery County high school, and put another son through school in Montgomery County, Pennsylvania. Start times there were also quite early. Both of them have been good and serious students who have wanted to participate in the life of their schools. While I don't think early starts ultimately have harmed their educations, I certainly think they made high school more difficult than it could have been. I began researching the issue with them and their friends in mind.

Gaithersburg, Md.: I was riveted by the article and found myself wondering... Has any research been done between sleep deprivation among teens and violent behavior (or other inappropriate responses to social stressors)? There was just a cursory mention at the beginning of the article about being short-tempered. Could the gradual pushing back of starting times (and thus taking away sleep time) be one of the factors associated with the increase in physical fighting in high schools? (Granting that extreme cases like Columbine involve a lot more than just getting up on the wrong side of the bed.)

Marc Kaufman: This was one of several questions about fatigue and violence. I don't believe the research is strong enough to say that current start times directly impact on student violence, but the research definitely does indicate that tired kids have less control over their emotions. When I visited schools in Minnesota with later start times, teachers and administrators generally spoke of the school being more calm and less agitated. Could that result in less violence -- that is still unclear. But in Minneapolis officials also wanted to have high school and middle school students in school later in the afternoon because that is when most teen crime was occurring. I believe there has been a considerable decrease in teen crime in recent years there since school starts were moved back, and maybe there is a cause and effect.

Arlington, Va.: Mr. Kaufman, is Arlington facing any backlash yet about the decision to move school starting time back to 8:15 a.m.?

Marc Kaufman: I believe that a considerable number of teachers have told the Arlington school board that they may leave the district because of the later starts. If that actually happens, it would clearly be a loss for the school. But perhaps other teachers will be attracted by the later start times. I am not aware of other backlash, but I am sure that change will be difficult for some people. Change was also tough in Edina, Minn. in the first year. But several years later, the community is very pleased by the later starts.

va: THANK YOU for covering this topic in your article. I spent two years in a high school with a start time of 7:20, and 2 years in one with a start time of 8:00 am. The first high school I went to, I was always tired, and frequently ill (I would like to see a study done of illness rates among high schools with different start times). I was a straight-A student, yet I had picked out specific classes as "rest" periods: usually, these were classes that were sufficiently large that no one would notice if I was asleep. When I transferred high schools and suddenly had an extra 40 minutes in the morning, it changed my life. I was never late to school, I was more alert throughout the day, and I was hardly ever ill. I felt like a new person. It was wonderful. I feel very angry when people complain about the effect later start times will have on after-school jobs and sports. The most important part of a teenagers life is to get an education, and if starting 40 minutes later in the morning can do that, then that's what should be done. I know many adults who have trouble getting up when it's still dark out. It's a terribly unfair situation to put kids in the position of having to get up that early with no choice in the matter.

Marc Kaufman: This student voices an opinion that I found to be quite common. Not only were many students quite unhappy about the early starts, but they felt the school system was letting them down by not addressing it. That said, it is also very true that early starts work well for other students. But the research certainly indicates that far more students will be negatively effected -- or even harmed -- by early starts, than will be helped by them.

Vienna, Va.: Could not a fair amount of the problem of sleepy teenagers be solved by parents who insisted that their kids get to bed earlier? If kids who have to get up at 6 a.m. got to bed by 10 p.m., they'd get 8 hours of rest. I think there may be a lot of kids and parents who just don't know when and how to cut the day off at an appropriate time and don't want to own up to their own responsibilities in getting a good night's sleep.

Marc Kaufman: Several questions have been asked regarding parental oversight of bed times. Without a doubt, teens today have many more reasons to stay up late than years ago -- everything from the Internet to MTV. And certainly many kids do stay up to late for social/entertainment reasons. But I was struck by the research in Minnesota which found students at the later starting high schools were sleeping on average almost 45 minutes more a night than the early starting ones. That means that most of the kids were using their extra time for additional sleep rather than other social endeavors. I also have been struck by the difficult, essentially college-level courses that many high school students are taking today. These courses require a lot of homework, and sometimes it just can't be done by 10, even by a well organized student.

Rockville, Md.: How can we parents convince Montgomery County school board members to give our children a later starting time? Mona Signor, former school board member, was the only one that I know of who's sympathetic to giving our children a later high school starting time. Thanks, Perdita

Marc Kaufman: The administrators and school board in Montgomery County are struggling with many hot button issues, and so far high school starts has not been one of them. I think that the board and administrations will respond if they conclude that many people want change, and if they are persuaded the research is convincing. So far, Superintendent Weast has taken the position that he doesn't want to revisit the issue unless there is research showing that later start times will improve test scores. Research is now being conducted on that issue in Minneapolis, but I'm told it is difficult going and that it the results may not be conclusive. But I'm not sure that improving test scores need be the only criteria for this kind of issue.
In Minnesota, and in Arlington, having individual board members who felt strongly about the issue was essential.

Formerly of Farmington, Conn.: Five days a week, for four years of high school, I woke up at 6, showered, had breakfast and was at the end of my street waiting for the bus at 6:55 -- and no, it wasn't uphill, both ways! School started at 7:25, and only my senior year (when my 1st period classmates had cars) do I remember anyone coming late to class. And I don't recall anyone falling asleep. And this included my 2 hour practices & games after school. What are students doing at night that they can't get up at 6 a.m. to go prepare for their future? Somehow I just don't buy that all of these students are up until midnight studying Shakespeare or calculus.

Marc Kaufman: When I went to high school, which was rather a while ago, I also do not remember kids falling asleep in class. But our start was 8:30, and it just wasn't an issue. I suspect that if that same school in suburban New York suddenly went to a 7:15 start, there would be a revolt. I was struck by how consistently kids told me that they and their schoolmates regularly dozed off at B-CC High. I have no reason to believe these kids are slackers -- actually, the opposite seems to be the case. One bit of lab research that I found very interesting concluded that many adolescents allowed to sleep only 4 or 6 hours thought they were doing well on their appointed tasks when they actually weren't. That said, some people definitely can get by on less sleep than others. Bill Clinton, for instance, often said he slept very little.

Minneapolis, Minn.: Do you believe that school should start later in the morning in order to increase the amount of sleep students are getting? Also, how much sleep do you believe students should get, and do you believe that school or schoolwork are behind the lack of sleep among the teen population?

Marc Kaufman: I was surprised that the research found the optimal amount of sleep for teens was between 8 1/4 and 9 1/4 hours a night. I was brought up thinking that 8 hours was ideal, and most sleep experts will say that amount is fine. In fact, they will say that few teens actually sleep that much on weekdays -- the Brown University studies found considerably less. They also found that teens generally try to make up for their sleep losses during the weekend, and that does provide some help. But the research also found a correlation between depressed feelings and especially long weekend sleeps. In fact, there was considerable evidence that kids who got little weekday sleep were more inclined to symptoms of depression. As to my own preferences, I think an 8 am start would be great, and I think the vast majority of parents and students would agree. And that is the problem: high school, middle school and elementary parents and students would all prefer an 8 am start. School officials say it would be extremely expensive to have everyone start at 8, and so the hard decisions involve who should go first, second and third.

Springfield, Va.: Diversity is a wonderful thing - and I mean in a broader sense. Everyone is different. I believe there are adults (more than will admit it) as well as kids who just function better later in the day and it is not a bad thing. And of course there are those who do are more productive earlier. I wonder if there is a way to be creative in assessing and accommodating these differences. Perhaps there could be staggered start times, or an option to sign-up for permission to arrive at school for 2nd period and stay for one additional period at the end of the day. This may also provide school staff with the option of 'flextime' that is offered in more and more work environments. If transportation issues make this too difficult to implement, it could be offered, as some other programs are, with responsibility of transportation resting with the families who decide to take advantage of this. Just a thought.

Marc Kaufman: I think this is the kind of creative thinking that is needed. The Montgomery County school board approved a pilot program along these lines several years ago, but the mechanics seems too complex to the principals and none took up the challenge. I find it difficult to accept that this issue to too complicated for school boards to come up with solutions that are better than what most of us have today.

Arlington Va.: But if school classes start and end later, how will the students fit in all the extracurricular activities (sports, chess club, etc) and still be able to keep their night jobs?

Is there anything being done to cut back on the number of students who are working long hours at jobs outside of school?

Marc Kaufman: As I reported this story, I was struck by how many high school students work, and how many work more than 20 hours a week. Research has been quite strong on this issue: if kids work more than 20 hours, it will very likely harm their schoolwork. I know that there are kids in local schools who need to work to help support their families. But there are doubtless far more who work 20 hours-plus to buy extra things they want. And I see no reason why school start times should be determined with those work schedules, or the needs of employers, in mind.

Oakton, Va.: I concur with your assessment of the downside(s) of secondary schools' early opening times. Aside from the biological effects, it seems absolutely senseless for teenagers to be released from school before 2:30 in the afternoon, when most remain unsupervised until the evening. I've heard the arguments about jobs and sports but still believe that kids would perform better and more willingly if they could start at a more sensible time and stay involved at the school later in the day. Furthermore, our local high school is located near a major metro station and the traffic flow along the main arterial towards school and metro is atrocious at 7:00 a.m. When I attended high school in the mid-sixties, our hours were far more sensible - 8:30 until 3:30. We didn't depend on stimulants to get us going at 6:30 a.m.!

Marc Kaufman: The issue of high caffeine sodas in school is another one that, I think, does not reflect terribly well on school districts across the country. The soda makers give the schools lots of money for the right to place their machines strategically in schools, and I certainly saw quite a few students loading up on Mt. Dew and Coke at 7.30 am. in school.

Reston, Va.: How about those schools in Fairfax County? At South Lakes, in Reston, not only do they refuse to consider later start times, but they actually made the start time EARLIER! What are these people thinking?

Marc Kaufman: I am not familiar with that particular school decision, but I have been struck by how little public discussion accompanied the push back of start times nationwide over the past few decades. It has generally been done in relatively small steps that maybe didn't seem worth protesting. But I imagine if a school district today wanted to go from 8.30 to 7.15, there would be a lot of protest. Additionally, school districts now rightly study what a change from 7.15 to 8.15 would mean to their communities. But I doubt that kind of thought and effort occurred when they were pushing them earlier and earlier.

Virginia: Marc Kaufman,
Thank you so much for writing the article on Sleepless in Suburbia. This article is so needed. It does seem that school officials want to ignore this issue. My daughter has had to struggle with this problem, of schools opening too early in Prince William County, since 8th grade. Sometimes, the math and science class that is the hardest is also placed at the 1st school period. I have this year finally worked out a plan for my daughter.
A High School Mom

Marc Kaufman: This is definitely an issue that few school administrators want to hear about because it will potentially inconvenience staff and parents. From what I have seen, administrators tend to give less emphasis to the potential benefits than to the undeniable difficulties in a change.

The Estates at Riverdale Park, Maryland: Bonjour Marc,

Did you look at boarding schools? I presume such schools are free to choose their start times because they don't have to worry about transporting kids.

Marc Kaufman: I did not look at boarding or private schools. But I believe most private high schools start around 8, which is what most parents and students prefer.

Washington, D.C.: I don't understand Arlington teachers' arguments about later starts and traffic. They are welcome to continue driving in at an earlier time to beat traffic in the morning. And even with the later finishing time, they would be leaving school before the evening rush.

Marc Kaufman: I don't entirely understand that argument either, but I know that traffic is a dominant issue to many people in Maryland and Northern Virginia. Whether it should determine when high schools start, however, is another matter.

College Park, Md.: I graduated a couple years ago from high school with a start time of 7:17, and all I remember about my first period classes is through a sort of bleary daze. I would often fall asleep in class, even though I was a straight-A student. I honestly don't think a lot of adults realize how hard it is for students today to take several AP classes, get involved in music and sports, volunteer, work, etc. because that is what is expected of us today. I don't think our parent's generation ever had the high expectations put on them to do as much as you possibly can, to the point of exhaustion, simply so your college application will look better. I never got to sleep before midnight and I definitely think a later start time would have helped me tremendously.

Marc Kaufman: I agree that many students today shoulder demands that are remarkably great. I read an interesting article recently about college admission officers who had been appalled to see how many kids were arriving at their campuses burned out. The pressures to get into colleges are great, and the voices telling kids to ease up for their longterm good are few. These admission officers, at top schools, felt that something was definitely wrong, and they said they would be looking for somewhat less stressed students in the future. It seems to me that high schools have a role to play in sending out messages of health, as well as competition and athletic/academic achievement.

Marc Kaufman: Thanks for your good questions. I'm sorry I haven't been able to reply to them all, but work beckons...