Amy Joyce

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Career Track Live
Hosted by Amy Joyce
Washington Post columnist
Tuesday, June 12, 2001; 11 a.m. EDT/EST

Are you trying to get ahead or find the right niche? Then talk to Amy Joyce, Career Track columnist for The Washington Post.

If you would like help creating the perfect resume, Robbie's the one to answer your questions.

The transcript follows below.

Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.

Amy Joyce: Hello all and welcome to our weekly Career Track Live session. This week we have special guest Robbie Miller Kaplan who is ready to tell you everything there is to writing resumes and more. I hate writing them as much as you do, but she makes it sound SO easy. There are a ton of questions waiting already, so let's get started.

Northern Va.: Is it OK to keep your education information at the top of the resume, even if you are not a recent grad? I finished my masters degree three years ago, but since I feel my college and grad school are two of the better things on my resume, I have kept them at the top, rather than putting my most recent experience first.

Robbie Miller Kaplan: Hi all. Your resume should be organized to highlight your strengths. If you feel education is your strength, then go ahead and keep it at the top.

Downtown D.C.: Hi Robbie! How do you find great ways to really make your job sound impressive to employers?

Robbie Miller Kaplan: The best way to make your qualifications sparkle is with strong action verbs. Get comfortable with words by using a synonym dictionary or thesaurus. I can't live without The Synonym Finder by J.I. Rodale.

Northern Va.: I've been taught that fancy colors, fonts, etc., are really not that desirable in a resume. Especially these days, when resumes are frequently put into databases, that preclude lots of bold, italics, etc. Would you agree? Also, is "resume paper" really required? Thanks!

Robbie Miller Kaplan: You should use two fonts on a resume - one a serif, such as Times New Roman, Century Schoolbook or Book Antique, and a sans serif, such as Arial or Lucinda Sans. You should choose basic colors such as white, off-white, beige, or cream when selecting papers. Appropriate papers are a good quality bond.

Washington, D.C.: Hi! I graduated from college last June. I am in a job now but will be looking again towards the end of the year. Is it all right to keep the office-type job I had during my senior year in college on my resume or should I only put my "real world" experience on it? Thanks.

Robbie Miller Kaplan: It's fine to keep the office type job on your resume until you have more experience in your chosen field. Include any experiences that demonstrate that you have the qualifications for the positions you seek.

Herndon, Va.: Amy, in the last two years, I took a 3-month break to day trade, followed by 8 months of a dot-com failure and then 3 months of my own enterprise. I figured that in today's marketplace, recruiters could appreciate an entrepreneurial spirit, and understand a dot-com failure. I want to be 100% truthful, but am I WAY off base?

Amy Joyce: I think in today's workplace, you roll with it. Rules of yesteryear seem to have flown out the window with the onslaught of new economy companies, and this up and down market. Just think about what skills and knowledge you've gained from your colorful history and sell it. But make sure before you do that, you figure out for sure what it is you want to do next. And if you're going to work for someone else, let them know WHY you are interested in their company and why you'd actually stay with them for longer than three months, considering your history. Of course, that info is going to be followed by your own beliefs, if you catch my drift. Do you research and look before you leap. Robbie...any input?

Robbie Miller Kaplan: Why not use your qualifications summary to highlight your entrepreneurial spirit and skills.

Arlington, Va.: Hi! When is the best time to apply for jobs? I heard that it's best in May and January? Do you agree? How do you go about changing your job when the job market is not so hot? Thanks!

Robbie Miller Kaplan: Look for jobs when you need despite the time of year. I've heard of individuals who got great jobs during the holidays. Or, if you have the luxury of planning your search, do your research on employers and industries and schedule your search when you are ready.

West Haven, Conn.: I graduated college last year with a journalism degree. The focus of my studies was advertising. I am interested in trying to attain an entry-level job in the creative department of an advertising agency. I have no internships in this related field. I am moving to a new city and I know no one. Any suggestions on helping me try to get my foot in the door of a D.C. ad agency besides networking?

Amy Joyce: Why don't you want to network? That is absolutely the best way to get your foot in the door. Check out an advertising association. Think about all the contacts you've made since college and send out an e-mail to family, friends, colleagues describing what it is you hope to do. You may be surprised to find out who has a contact or two for you. You also should check back with your college career center and ask for a list of alums in the D.C. area. Most colleges offer that list and the folks on the list have volunteered their info so they can give advice and contact information to folks in situations like yours. Robbie?

Robbie Miller Kaplan: Networking is absolutely the best way to find jobs.

West Haven Conn.: Is it better to e-mail or mail your resume?

Robbie Miller Kaplan: Carefully follow the organization's guidelines and preferences.

Fairfax, Va.: What is your idea of a perfect cover letter? Reiterating and expanding, or summarizing the resume?

Robbie Miller Kaplan: The perfect cover letter is a partner to your resume. It more clearly targets how your unique qualifications match the job you are seeking. I like to use a middle section that states: "Highlights of my qualifications, as detailed in the enclosed resume, include:" and then list those qualifications that the employer is seeking in bullet form. Works like a charm.

Arlington, Va.: Robbie, Thanks for helping all of us! I'm in my late 20's and am at the first job I had out of college. I was sick and out of work for about 6 months (and then back increasingly part time for about a year). Do I have to put that on my resume (it will help explain why I didn't rise as quickly as I would have)? If so, how is the best way to go about it? How much, if any, do I have to tell a potential employer (and when)? This is something that is being controlled and I will be able to work full time from now on. I don't want to tell them something that won't get me hired. Thanks!

Robbie Miller Kaplan: Your resume should detail your experience and accomplishments. You do not have to indicate whether it is part-time or full-time work and you can use years rather than months. Be honest with what you have contributed and accomplished but you do not have to include any personal information. An employer wants to know that your credentials match their job requirements. Give them that and you'll be on your way. Good luck!

Baltimore, Md.: Dear Robbie,

I am currently a financial analyst in investment banking. I have only done 1 year. I graduated from college in May 2000. I am from the D.C. area and looking to move back to it and work in finance/technology but not in I-Banking. How/where could I find information on how to write a condensed description of what I do in banking. I have learned and done so much in this job that it would take 3/4 of a page using bullets. I thought bullets were better than paragraph form.

Thanks

SJ

Robbie Miller Kaplan: It's great to begin with lots of information. The best resumes detail what you have accomplished and the worst read like a job description. Prepare a descriptive opening statement and choose following information that describes what you have done differently and what you have contributed. If you have core skills that you want to include, intersperse them in a qualifications summary and a skills section or combine the skills section within your summary.

Alexandria, Va.: What is the most current way to lay out a resume? Does one need to state an objective? How about responsibilities, should they be bulleted or in a sentence? Thanks.

Robbie Miller Kaplan: I'm going to suggest that you look at my book "Sure-Hire Resumes." I gives lots of information and examples on the best ways to format and organize a resume. I find it easier to understand the process when reviewing good examples. Good luck!

Fairfax, Va.: I need to update my resume but not sure what exactly I cover in my resume. Should I just list my responsibilities or accomplishments, etc.? Please help me out.

Robbie Miller Kaplan: Resumes must clearly demonstrate how your qualifications match the job requirements of the positions you seek. Prepare and organize information that supports this. I find if you keep reminding yourself, "Does this demonstrate my qualifications for the position," you will more easily select and weed out information. Good luck!

Rockville, Md.: What should a cover letter consist of?

When is it OK to discuss salary requirements?

What is the ideal length for a resume?

Robbie Miller Kaplan: Traditional (paper) resumes should be one to two pages in length - scannable resumes have more flexibility in length but you should read an organization's application requirements. Cover letters should always be mailed or faxed with resumes and they should demonstrate qualifications that more clearly target you for the positions you seek.

New York, N.Y.: Hi there!

For a long time throughout high school and college, I was always told that for people relatively new in a field (less than five years experience) that a one-page resume was the most you should fill out.

I keep a one-page version and a more complete three-page version that I can easily pick pieces from to tailor resumes for individual businesses.

Recently, I've been doing a lot of job searching, and nearly every recruiter I've talked to said they prefer the most detailed version of the resume to one that leave things out.

I've found so far that I get a much better response from the detailed resume than the trimmed down version.

What's the story here? Is this a shift in the resume environment, or am I encountering an odd group of recruiters?

Amy Joyce: Robbie, this is a common question. It's always been so difficult to try to keep your entire life written on one page. Has that changed? Especially in the wake of all the job hopping that has happened with the dot-com world?

Robbie Miller Kaplan: I feel that two page resumes are just fine. This is such an individual issue. Everything truly depends on what you have to offer. I think job seekers/resume writers don't realize the flexibility they have in using fonts and sizes to layout their resume effectively and make the most efficient use of their one or two pages. I have lots of examples in both "Resume Shortcuts" and "Sure-Hire Resumes."

Philadelphia, Pa.: Hi there --
I just moved out of NYC and am conducting my job search in DC from Philadelphia and am not sure how to note this in my cover letter. I am ready to move to Washington tomorrow when I find a job. Thanks so much for your comments.

Robbie Miller Kaplan: You should indicate all of this in your cover letter - your plans to locate to D.C. and your immediate availability. Let employers know your are available for interviews and follow-up and reinforce this information on the phone.

Washington, D.C.: Any thoughts on whether to keep bartending on my resume? I've been working in the restaurant business part-time since high school. After college, I bartended for about a year before I found another job. I think it highlights my customer service skills, but am not sure.

Robbie Miller Kaplan: It's important to remember to avoid clutter on your resume. Any information that distracts the reader (employer) is clutter. Ask yourself for every piece of information you would like to include: "Does this make me a more qualified candidate?" If it does, include it; if not, eliminate it. Good luck!

Alexandria, Va.: Do companies look at online resumes or do keyword searches through them?

Robbie Miller Kaplan: Yes they do. But, I would use a variety of sources and search methods to find a job. Never rely on just one method.

Virginia: Thanks for all the good info in these discussions. I recently applied for a job and had to indicate my salary requirements. Because I am interested in the job and don't want to be passed over as a result of asking for too high a salary, I slightly low-balled the figure. How do employers use this information? Just to see if you're in their ballpark? Or do they use it to determine what to offer you, even if perhaps the person who preceded you earned more? I don't want to have sold myself short.

Amy Joyce: Robbie, everyone seems to get stuck on the salary history question that is inevitably asked...and everyone seems to do things differently. What are the rules here, and how can folks best describe their history so they can make enough salary, or not be discluded from the running if they make more than the new company is willing to pay?

Robbie Miller Kaplan: If you low-ball the figure, you may be in the running but they may offer you a lower salary than others are getting or you want. I like job seekers to tell an employer that their salary requirements are in line with and then give them a recent study from a professional association or government source. This is a sticky issue and I caution job seekers to avoid giving an exact dollar amount in a cover letter or over the phone. You do best discussing this during an interview.

West Haven, Conn.: Is it OK to focus your resume around school projects and extracurricular activities rather than irrelavent work experience? For example in replacement of the traditional work experience, write relevant experience and list school projects for example:

RELEVANT EXPERIENCE
Marketing Research Team, Advertising Federation Student-Campaign,"The New York Times."
Conducted primary and secondary research for our integrated marketing campaign.

Robbie Miller Kaplan: If you choose to use projects because they more clearly demonstrate your qualifications, you must make them descriptive. A list really tells something little. Detail how the project enhanced your knowledge/skills and how it relates to the positions you seek.

Greensboro, N.C.: I've been unemployed since the end of January and have had several wonderful interviews. Throughout the second, sometimes third interview process, I still seem to come in second choice. Is there an underlying message being conveyed here, other than I didn't get the job?

P. Simpson

Robbie Miller Kaplan: Why don't you call the interviewer back and say, "I really enjoyed meeting you and would have loved the position. Can you tell me what I can do to strengthen my credentials so I'll be prepared for the next opportunity."

Arlington, Va.: A few things I've learned about resumes and cover letters--things I didn't know until I started hiring people.

Keep it short. I'm not going to read a long cover letter. I skim it and look for the info I'm interested in (to find out if they have the qualifications I'm looking for). Don't try to make a mundane job more impressive by using what I called "consultants' phrases" "Extensive interpersonal interaction with client-base" when you mean you answered the phone. There is absolutely no way I would even consider a resume written like that.

In the resume: don't give me more information than I need (like the person who's been in banking for 1 year--I'm not going to read through 3/4 of a page on what you learned in a year. Maybe if you'd been there 5 or 10 years. Not one). Tell me what your responsibilities and accomplishments are, in simple and direct language.

Also, if your resume and experience are solid, I don't care what kind of paper it comes in on. Laser printer paper is fine, as long as everything's neat and there are no errors. No one ever got a job, or got turned down for a job because they didn't use bond paper. And besides, would you really want to work for a company that bases its hiring decisions on paper selection?

Amy Joyce: Hmmm. Thanks... Robbie, this sounds like good advice. Your thoughts?

Robbie Miller Kaplan: Recruiters and employers are unique individuals and do their hiring based on their own criteria. It is important for job seekers to present themselves in the best possible light avoiding information and data that may detract an employer from their qualifications. I look at the process as a package - not one part of the process gets you in or knocks you out of the running.

New York, N.Y.: Hi there --

Great column! I read every week, and recently I visited the archives to learn more about supervising people. The information there was very helpful, and I hope you can share some insight on the "next step."

I just had my annual review and received great feedback from my boss and the highest raise possible. Overall it's a great fit all the way around. He also said that I'm on track to be promoted to VP in a year, and that I should start thinking about what my "dream job" with the company would be so that he and I can write up a description, pull together a department for me, etc. Which is all great, except that I don't know where to start with this. Granted, I have about a year to pull this together, but do you have any ideas for how or where to start? I'm in marketing/communications and I haven't supervised staff (except for volunteer board work) for about five years (right now I handle all company marketing/communications/PR/advertising on my own). Help!

Amy Joyce: Thanks for reading. Sounds like you are in the midst of a great situation. You're lucky that yes, you have a year. And that question about where you want to be in a year or two always stumps folks. Start talking to people within your company and your field. Find out what they like and dislike about their jobs. Figure out if anything they say really excites you. If so, how can you intertwine that into your "dream job"? Talk to your boss, think about what he/she said in your review that really stands out about you. And think about what you'd like to be doing even if you weren't getting paid for it. Any way you can incorporate that into your new job? You have time, so start thinking hard about yourself, what excites you, what you excel at. What is it they say? The world is your oystah? Don't stress...enjoy this time to think about yourself and your goals. And be psyched your company is willing to let you fulfill that.

Robbie Miller Kaplan: sounds good.

Alexandria, Va.: I've had several prospective employers compliment my cover letters. My letters are very short. Intro paragraph about where I saw the ad and what position I'm applying for. Main paragraph about why I meet their qualifications (no more than 4 sentences, at the very most). Concluding paragraph that includes my contact info. That's it. And I typically get calls on about 60% of the resumes I've sent out.

Robbie Miller Kaplan: Sounds great - keep doing what works!

Dallas, Tex.: I have over 20 years of experience in management in a particular field, and want to alter my career direction, using the considerable human resource skills I've gained. How do I develop a resume that doesn't box me into the field I've been working in so long?

Robbie Miller Kaplan: Include functional sections as part of your summary to highlight the experiences you would like to capitalize on. Make your summary a more integral part of your resume to demonstrate areas you would like to transition into. Emphasize these key areas in your experience section and use your cover letter to indicate your interests and qualifications. Good luck!

Washington, D.C.: Odd grammatical errors, random capitalizations, spelling errors, confusing abbreviations - all of those have come across my desk on resumes recently.

Remind people - spell check, look over your grammar, and PROOFREAD! Otherwise, accept that those errors will put you out of the running instantly.

Robbie Miller Kaplan: I agree. Any error will knock you out of the running. Never trust spell checkers as the final word. Proofread carefully and ask a friend or colleague to proofread it as well.

Washington, D.C.: When is the best time to apply for jobs? I heard that it's best in May and January? Do you agree?

Robbie Miller Kaplan: I think you should apply for a job when you are ready, despite the time of year. Employers have needs all year long.

Columbia, Md.: Hello Robbie,

I am presently in an information technology position where I have a done a number of things, and worked on a lot of projects. I have been an analyst, designer, senior technical leader, and project leader. I am having trouble with this part on my resume. Do I show each project that I worked on, highlighting the skills I have, or try to summarize it all in one block of information? Thank you.

Robbie Miller Kaplan: What is your job objective? Employers are not career counselors, evaluating your resume to determine where you best fit. You need to narrow your choice and once again, choose experience and additional credentials that clearly demonstrate that you meet the job requirements.

Washington, D.C.: There is no perfect resume; it is too easy to get bogged down in this, when a chronological resume with your education in there does just as well. For non-techie people this is just fine. People can spin their wheels and get hysterical over this instead of just going out there, talking to people and sending out their cover letters.

Robbie Miller Kaplan: It is true that there is no perfect resume but resumes are the first step in the job search process. Employers will either screen you in or out based on your resume.

Herndon, Va.: Good morning, Amy & Robbie--
I'm noticing there are so many companies that require an electronic version or a text file resume. What can I do to make my electronic/text resume stick out? Are there any dos/don'ts? Thanks for your advice!

Robbie Miller Kaplan: Electronic resumes are simply resumes formatted in plain text (ASCII) for easy transmission. You can't use bullets, fancy fonts, or special effects to make your information stand out. The best choice is to use effective words, organized to clearly demonstrate your credentials.

Harrisonburg, Va.: I have had an internship at a small computer company and I have two jobs as student assistants. One of the assistant jobs counted for internship credit too. Do you think that I should not list intern twice on my resume? Do some companies follow this thinking: "Since this applicant has already had an internship, we will give this opportunity (for an internship) to someone else?"

A professor once told me that I should not use the work assistant or assisted on my resume because it gives the impression that I did not have a lot of responsibility.
What is your opinion? Thank you.

Robbie Miller Kaplan: The word intern is just fine. I have seen job seekers with two to three internships that have listed them just like that.

Reston, Va.: About a year ago, I took a job as a web developer (my experience is in technical writing). I didn't enjoy the work or the place and moved on after 3 months to a job I much preferred. Do I still need to list the job on my resume and provide references from it? (I doubt my manager would remember me very clearly if he is still there - I don't keep up with anyone there)

Robbie Miller Kaplan: If you were there just three months and have other experiences that year, I think you will be fine leaving it out. It is important to bear in mind that you must never lie or mislead an employer.

Washington, D.C.: Hi Robbie! I am looking to switch jobs (currently in something completely unrelated) and I have always wanted to work for an automobile company or do something internationally (or both). I don't know much about automobile companies, like what type of jobs, but I have a BS in economics and think I would like to climb the corporate executive ladder. I think getting my MBA would be the best chance, but how can I get experience in this field without my MBA. Where is a good place to start looking? Any other advice? Thanks!

Robbie Miller Kaplan: I would try exploratory interviews to get information about the industry and identify how your experience matches opportunities. Also, research organizations and positions at their Web sites. Good luck!

Possible Career-Changer, Va.: I'm currently working as a Web designer (and have been for the past two years), although I have a varied communications background, including production, print and a tiny bit of video.

If I'm redoing my resume to look toward a different kind of position (such as multimedia producer, possibly writing), would using an objective on my resume help to define my intent to career shift?

Robbie Miller Kaplan: Objectives really narrow your search and I usually recommend qualifications summaries or profiles. But, if you are so specific and this is all you want, you can use an objective.

Bethesda, Md.: Can you recommend a good resume service in the D.C. area? I need to update mine and I'm considering having it professionally done. Thanks.

Robbie Miller Kaplan: Interview resume services. Ask them how long they have been in business, their approach in writing resumes and their track record. If in doubt, ask for references.

Outside the Beltway: Wow, your timing couldn't be better! I've always gotten great 'reviews' on my resume, but now I'm faced with something I don't know how to resolve. The predominance of my recent work history has been in one extended industry. I've held management, training, fiscal and technology positions at several distinctly different companies within that industry. When my last position was eliminated, I had a difficult time finding something else, so I took a position in a radically different field. It was my 'soft skills' that made me fit here as well as I have, but I know now, after a year, that this was the wrong move and I want to move on. Before this, I was able, in my resume, to weave a connection among what might have looked like a mish-mash of disconnected companies. But my current employer, position and functions have absolutely zero in common with my history. Add to that the fact that I have no measurable achievements here (I'm currently in education: Nothing happens in a year!) to include. Truthfully, I'd just like to pretend this year hasn't happened, but I know hiring managers frown on long gaps. Assuming that online formats don't typically allow for cover letters, what magic would you suggest I work on my resume?!

Thanks.

Robbie Miller Kaplan: Make this a short entry and include descriptive information that enhances your prior experience. Demonstrate through your cover letter your passion in the positions or industries you seek and your desire to transition. Good luck!

Amy Joyce:

That was our last question today. Thanks to everyone who joined the discussion.

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