Hosted by Warren Brown
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednessday, March 20, 2002; 11 a.m. EST
Warren Brown has been covering the automobile industry for The Washington Post since 1982. Brown, who joined the newspaper in 1976, has what many people think is a particularly cool job: He gets to test drive all manner of cars, from top-of-the-line Mercedes sedans and the newest sports cars to Volkswagen Beetles and SUVs. His auto reviews are lively, detailed accounts of a car's good and bad points, addressing everything from a car's highway performance to its "head-turning" factor and sound system.
Warren came online to answer your questions on every aspect of the automotive industry, from buying your dream car to the future of the internal combustion engine.
The transcript follows.
Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
Russett, Md.: Would you care to comment on Bob Levey's online comments from last Friday? Bob tried to claim that a full-size van was more economical to own, and handled better than a full-size SUV.
Warren Brown: Dear Russett, Md.:
My dear friend, Bob, is an urbane fellow who probably never sullied himself with the likes of a GMC Savanna, Ford Econoline, or Dodge Ram van. Had he done so, he certainly would not have concluded that full-size vans get better mileage than SUVs. He certainly would not have concluded that full-size vans, with their rather small wheels (in proportion to van size) are more stable than SUVs. And there also is the point that a full-size van is, well, a full-size van. An SUV can be a mini-SUV, compact SUV, mid-size SUV, or full-size SUV; or, it can be a car/wagon/SUV hybrid. So, my friends comparison was apples and oranges. He probably was close to lunch and dreaming of a fruit salad.
Washington, D.C.: I can't find a straight answer on this one. Mercury is discontinuing the Villager minivan after this year. But will Nissan continue to build the Villager's platform, the Nissan Quest?
Warren Brown: Dear Washington:
Ford and Nissan co-produce the Villager and Quest at a Ford plant in Lorraine, Ohio. My understanding is that production of both models will stop at that plant. I will check to make sure. If there are any Ford/Nissan people who can clarify, kindly send us a note.
Washington, D.C.: Hello Warren. I'm looking for a nice wagon in the $25,000-$30,000 range. I've looked at the Subaru WRX, the Outback, and the Lexus IS300. I want something sporty and that looks good (the Toyota Matrix is really ugly). Are there any other wagons that you might suggest? Are there any coming in 2003 that you know of. I wish Honda would remake the Accord wagon. Thanks!
Warren Brown: Dear Washington:
You really don't want Honda to make remake the Accord wagon. It was too small and crammed to be of any real use as a wagon. You've compiled a good list. I would add the wonderful Saab 9-5 wagon to that.
Alexandria, Va.: Good morning, Warren:
Hope you are well. No question, just a comment of praise. I absolutely loved your open letter to John Kerry published in Washington Post online yesterday. I have followed the CAFE debate closely, and no one in the media seems to have the faintest understanding of it besides you.
The media coverage, at the behest of the extreme enviros, usually seeks to blame Detroit, without addressing the real challenge of trying to change consumer behavior (through a gas tax, as just one example you mentioned).
It must be very frustrating for you, as it is for me as a car enthusiast, to see so much ignorance and misinformation printed as gospel by the media. Your colleague Bob Levey, for example, spent much of his online discussion last Friday bashing SUVs for no apparent reason other than the fact that he once owned a Jeep Grand Cherokee that just wasn't the right vehicle FOR HIM. Funny how he doesn't bash pickup trucks and minivans with the same vigor.
But I just wanted to thank you for being the most articulate voice of reason of an emotional issue that shouldn't be. Cheers!
Warren Brown: Dear Alexandria:
Many thanks for your note. I am informed by the good people at NHTSA that vehicle production, as well as sales, factors into CAFE ratings. That sub-rule is buried deep in the CAFE regs. But, still, the point remains that CAFE's basic flaw is that it's far too one-sided, far too anti-market to be of any real use.
About the media:
You might have caught wind of the current debate over whether we in the media are biased. I think we are, though we are quite unwilling to admit it.
The current debate revolves around whether we are too liberal because more minorities and women are now in the media. I disagree with that. But I do think that there is a liberal bias, and that it works this way:
We are taught in journalism school that our mission as journalists is to afflict the comfortable and comfort the afflicted. But no one ever explained what gives us the right to do that. No one ever suggested that the comfortable are not inherently evil because they are comfortable, or that the afflicted are not inherently virtuous because they are afflicted.
So, the tendency in the general media is to view anyone who makes a profit as comfortable. That tendency is coupled with the erroneous notion that profit and truth are mutually exclusive commodities.
So, when an auto company says that something like a CAFE rule is unfair, we tend to scoff. We prefer, instead, to believe the Sen. Kerrys, Joan Claybrooks and Clarence Ditlows, because they have declared themselves on the side of the angels. We don't question them nearly as closely as we question General Motors.
There's also this: We tend to believe that any nonprofit group is telling the truth because the group is, well, nonprofit. We overlook the fact that nonprofit groups hustle for money just like any other organization. The difference is that they don't report a net gain from income. They have not dirtied themselves with profit. They supposedly have nothing to gain by saying what they say, or doing what they do.
It's time that we in the media take away that carte blanche believability from nonprofit organizations and start treating them the way we treat everybody else.
Washington, D.C.: What are your thoughts on the Volvo S60? I'm trying convince my husband that it would be the perfect family sedan for us, but he wants your approval first.
Warren Brown: Dear Washington:
I hate to get in the middle of a family debate. But, it might be in your best interest to look at the Saab 9-3, or 9-B; the Volkswagen Passat; the 2002 Nissan Altima; the Nissan Maxima; Audi A4 or A6. There's also the matter of the Jaguar X-Type. You seem not to have an American label on your shopping list, which is why I'm not suggesting any. But you wouldn't hurt yourself at all by looking at the new Cadillac CTS, too.
I like the S60. It just happens to be surrounded by lots and lots of competition.
Falls Church: Warren, why has your live online discussion become a CAFE/SUV political column?
Please focus on the cars!!! Not legislation or environmental concerns!!
Warren Brown: Dear Falls Church:
Get real. Cars and trucks do not operate in a vacuum. They operate in a society, and a physical environment. There are many important questions out there about how vehicles should be regulated. to ignore them in this chat, or anywhere else, is to ignore reality.
Duluth, Ga.: First, I enjoyed your appearance last weekend on CNN with Catherine Callaway. I read your column last fall on the Kia Sedona. After only a month of driving it, I have been very pleased. Still, I'm concerned about last week's Insurance Institute bumper test on the Sedona. Today, the Institute gave it only an acceptable safety rating, even though the NTHSA gave the Sedona the best rating among minivans. Should I have any safety concerns about the Sedona?
Warren Brown: Dear Duluth:
You should have safety concerns about any vehicle you drive. That's not being flip. It's a fact.
As for the Sedona, it did a good job of handling NHTSA's frontal and side-impact crash tests, which primarily are done to examine a vehicle's passive safety systems (air bags and seat belts, for example.) The IIHS test is complementary, but a bit more brutal. It is a frontal offset crash test. The aim there is to determine to what extent metallic parts of the car will intrude into the passenger cabin in a frontal crash, offset at about a 40-degree angle.
The bottom line is that you are reasonably safe in your Sedona, as long as you keep the emphasis on "reasonably."
Bethesda, Md.: Warren,
I recently punctured a tire on my M3 BMW. As you know, tires aren't cheap on that car. The guys at Merchants convinced me to save money by buying a new brand called Kumho, which was $100 cheaper per tire than my Michelins. Now that I have them, I realize there's a reason for the cheap price, they stink. Do I have any recourse in trading them in and getting a real brand, or am I forced to deal with the reduced performance?
Warren Brown: Dear Bethesda:
Unless there was some deliberate deception in the sale, or unless there is a product defect, methinks you are forced to deal with the lower performance. There is a reason why Michelins are Michelins and Kumbos are Kumbos.
Takoma Park, Md.: We have been very pleased with our VW Passat Station Wagon. I would add that to the list of station wagons from the earlier message.
Warren Brown: Dear Takoma Park:
Many thanks for that contribution.
Vienna, Va.: Your report on the Sentra Spec V the other day brings up some interesting points. Much of what you have to say about that car can probably be applied to the Matrix and Vibe GT's, the Volkswagen GTI, the Civic SI hatchback, the Focus SVT, the Acura RSX Type S, the Impreza WRX, the upcoming Mini Cooper S, and others like them (although the GTI has a somewhat softer suspension than the others here). My point is: It seems these cars are a waste of money in this area; many of them come only with manual transmissions in an area here with the second-worst stop-and-go traffic in the country. The traffic congestion, red lights, stop signs, etc... prevents any real test of their acceleration, braking, and speed capabilities The lousy streets in D.C. (and some in the suburbs) will really do a number on not only ride comfort with these stiffly-sprung cars, but also tire and wheel damage with their low-profile tires and alloy wheels. Stiff suspensions and lousy roads are also a good formula for squeaks and rattles. I'm 50 years old and drive a grown-up version of these cars (a Lexus IS300, at least with automatic), but I realize that these cars sell mainly in the 18-25 age group with baggy-pants and caps-on-backwards.
What is it about youth that demands an ultra-stiff ride?....I didn't like stiff suspensions any more at that age than I do now....the IS300 is a sport sedan but with reasonable comfort from the 16-inch all-season tires. Is it considered "cool" to get your butt tossed around on bumps? And to be in and out of the alignment shop? These cars make some sense in rural areas and in Europe, where the roads are much smoother, but I just don't see much sense in driving them in this area.
Warren Brown: Dear Vienna:
Blame it all on California, where the "tuner crowd," as they are called in the auto industry, have made a cult of turning little Japanese Cars into pocket rockets. They are today's drag racing crowd; and the automakers, while not overtly promoting illegal drag racing, are trying to exploit the phenomenon with a bunch of souped-up little runners. It's a matter of life imitating art, a la, "The Fast and the Furious."
Of course, no one will take the blame for the tragedies that result from this stuff, like the kid who lost his life recently in a drag race between a hot-rod Ford Escort and Honda Civic on a Maryland road.
No one made them do it, right?
Oakton, Va.: Oops, Warren, I think you were in error on the Saab 9-5 wagon recommendation in the 25-30K range on the caller's request. I don't think you can get a new one for that price...they start at close to 4OK. And the IS300 sportwagon that the caller mentions starts around 33K or so. I agree that the Outback would be an excellent choice.....the Legacy wagon would be even better (cheaper price).
Another good recommendation, I think, would be the Passat Wagon....if one can find a VW dealer with good service.
Warren Brown: Dear Oakton:
You are right on all points, and I stand corrected. That's what happens when you start thinking of things you like, without paying close enough attention to the dollar-sign part of the question. Again, thanks for the heads-up.
Washington, D.C.: Warren,
Thanks for your coverage of the CAFE issue. I agree that the CAFE law is terribly flawed, and needs to be replaced/thrown out the window/whatever. I have a few questions, though.
First, what will it take to get Detroit to build more efficient vehicles? I just don't buy the argument that consumers don't care. Everyone I know wishes their vehicle got better mileage. But they are not willing to sacrifice everything else they want/need in a vehicle. -One of the common arguments by people like Sen. Allen is that if you want a 50-MPG car, you can go buy one. But, Sen. Allen, what if I want a 50-MPG FAMILY car? (and I do.) What will it take to convince Detroit that they are not serving all of their customers? -[According to Detroit, seat belts were too expensive, and customers didn't want them, either.]
I have one other, sideline question. Are you personally against any sort of fuel economy standards, or just the goofed-up CAFE standards?
Thanks for your time.
Warren Brown: Dear Washington:
I am more aligned with your thinking on this. I want fuel-efficient vehicles that meet market needs and wants. I don't want federally mandated vehicles that ignore those needs and wants.
The auto industry has a challenge here. Most companies are trying to meet it. No one is trying NOT to produce those kinds of vehicles. That would be an absolutely stupid tack in a highly competitive market.
I just wish the government would let the car companies get out there and rumble, and stop wasting everybody's time by setting arbitrary goals and standards.
The first company that can produce a hot car that gets good fuel economy and that meets a wide range of practical and psychic needs wins.
Rockville, Md.: I am confused. What constitutes a "luxury" car anymore? There seems to be very little difference between some luxury brand offerings and "loaded" models from the proletariats of the world -- Toyota, Honda, GM, Ford, Mazda. Is it just a matter of money and prestige?
Warren Brown: Dear Rockville:
You are not the only one who is confused. I s luxury a function of price, content, or a combination of both? Almost every decent family car nowadays comes loaded air conditioning, power windows and locks, automatic transmission, four-wheel-independent suspension system, et cetera. It all blurs the meaning of luxury until you get to the undisputed luxury class, such as the BMW 7-Series and the Mercedes-Benz S-Class.
Frankly, I'd rather save the bucks and get much of that good stuff in something like a Chevrolet Impala.
Reston, Va.: NTB allows you to exchange your tires if you are not happy with them. They would probably be happy to take another $100 from you to sell you the Michelin you want.
Warren Brown: Thank for that tip, Reston.
Columbia Md.: Are you in favor of a blanket legislation that would force companies to increase fuel economy by 50 percent on all SUVs, trucks, etc, instead of applying the increase across the board to all brands manufactured?
Warren Brown: Dear Columbia:
No. I'm not for blanket anything when it comes to government regulation. One-size-fits-all usually fits no one in particular.
It seems to me that fuel economy standards should at least take into consideration vehicle size and weight, and perhaps performance intent. Is it reasonable to expect that a Porsche 911 should have the same fuel economy as a Honda Civic? I don't think so.
Greenville, S.C.: Over the past few weeks, you've mentioned more than once that high-mileage cars sit unsold on lots, and challenge the 700,000 members of the Sierra Club to increase demand for these cars, rather than the gas-guzzling behemoth's that now crowd our nation's highways. I take exception to these blanket statements on many levels, but my greatest concern is your lack of consideration that these people may not be buying new cars at all. Maybe they use public transportation. Maybe they carpool. Maybe they're buying used fuel-efficient cars. Maybe they're one of the many people on a six-month waiting list for a Prius. Maybe they're waiting for more hybrid cars, trucks and mini-vans to be released before they buy. Maybe they resist the marketing gimmicks that fuel the American urge to consume new products. Maybe they only buy new vehicles when it's really needed, not when the lease is up, or not just to have a new car. To ignore these and the many other reasons people DON'T buy new cars, and to blame environmentalists (labeled only as 'Sierra Club members') for the lack of fuel-efficient vehicles is as large an example of irresponsible journalism as any public TV expose' on SUV safety that has ever aired.
By the way, I agree that fuel efficiency need not be regulated and that gas prices (and taxes) are too low. We need a market-driven solution to fuel economy. That's the only way to make people realize and assume the personal responsibility and cost for the damage they're doing.
Warren Brown: Dear Greenville:
I have no argument with anything you say. But I Insist: The people who are complaining about the "lack" of fuel-efficient vehicles are ignoring the unsold existence of thousands of them. I pick at the Sierra Club, well, because I like picking at the Sierra Club--just as Sierra Club members, apparently, enjoy picking at anyone who has the temerity to buy an SUV.
I'm more than willing to let them take the bus, live in walkable communities, do all of that good stuff. I'm not trying to regulate them. I just wish they would stop trying to regulate people who choose to travel another way.
Clifton, Va.: But learning how to use the systems in an S or 7 these days is part of the fun. With an Impala you can just drive away from the dealer. You have to read the owners manual for both the 7 and the S before you can drive away.
Warren Brown: Dear Clifton:
Talk about! Geez! I've had the new BMW 745 for a few days, now. Today, I learned how to switch from the AM to the FM stations via that big knob, a kind of computer mouse, on the center console. I've mastered the push-button ignition (you've got to depress the brake to make it work.) I've also figured out how to use the windshield wipers and turn signals. Tonight, I'm going to cuddle up with the owner's manual and learn how to navigate the navigation system. Getting to know this car requires a commitment.
Reston, Va.: Warren,
Do you like Audi A4 1.8T, especially Quattro flavor? Thanks.
Warren Brown: Dear Reston:
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Have you tested the A4 with the CVT?
Kumbos and Michelins: A tire salesman actually directed a BMW owner to a "cheaper" brand? No discussion of V and S ratings and how the more expensive tires handle better (at very high speeds, of course). I am shocked. I must admit though that my Germantown NTB has been very helpful in getting me good tires at a reasonable price, but I have a '94 Isuzu Amigo.
Warren Brown: Thanks for that note.
To the easy rider: I'm a 24-year-old with Sentra SE-R. It's a few years old, but it handles well and has a decent sized engine for such a little car. Basically, it can move, and it can move through corners. I don't drag race or anything like that, but I want a car I can have a little fun with every so often. Look, I can understand when I'm 50 wanting a more spacious car, one with an automatic transmission, one that doesn't bump you about as much, but just as I like a hard riding mountain bike, I like a car that really lets me feel the road when I want to.
Warren Brown: Easy Rider:
That's all very cool. That's why the car companies love youth. You are the folks driving the market. Look, get the new SE-R, Subaru Impreza WRX, Acura RSX, whatever. You're realistic enough to know where you can and where you can't use them to do what they are designed to do.
P.S. If you are a Washington-area resident, be cool in Arlington, Va. We have an especially alert police force there, and those good officers have no qualms about pulling you over for the slightest infraction. Ditto the Maryland State Troopers and Virginia State Police and, ahem, the D.C. Metropolitan Police, Capitol Hill Police, U.S. Park Police. Otherwise, have a good time.
Somewhere, USA: warren, I believe the Quest and Villager will go away entirely when the Ohio plant closes, but Nissan is looking at doing a new, redesigned Quest at its Tennessee plant in a couple of years.
Warren Brown: Dear Somewhere:
Many thanks for that. And Ford is planning to replace the Villager--in about two years.
Re: Vienna's problem with tuner cars: One of the main reasons these cars are made and why they sell is because they're FUN.
Even in DC area commutes.
Personally, I wouldn't touch a "fun" car with an automatic (an oxymoron in my twisted way of thinking) -- slushboxes in those types of cars are the real waste of money, IMHO.
It just goes to show that there are different strokes for different folks--if we're going to defend the right of SUV owners to have their vehicles, then the same applies for the pocket-rocket crowd.
Signed, a 45-year old who loves his turbo-charged 5 speed.
Warren Brown: Dear Fellow Middle-Ager:
Spiritually, I agree with you. I am a recalcitrant adolescent who will always love fast, fun cars. It's in the blood.
But we both know that fun can be curtailed by one's environment, lousy roads that undo tight suspensions; and dedicated police who can undo egos over the speed limit. That's all Vienna is saying. That's all I'm saying.
Arlington, Va.: I'll admit I haven't been following the whole CAFE thing that closely, but how about some type of system where car manufacturers can buy and sell "gas mileage" credits to each other...so, for example, one company that makes lots of high mileage small cars can sell its excess credits to a company that makes lots of low-mileage cars.
This type of trading is actually used for "pollution credits" for air pollution in any industrial segments.
Warren Brown: Dear Arlington:
Actually, a credit system already exists. For example, an auto company that fails to meet CAFE standards this year can use "carry-back" credits for having met or exceeded those standards in previous years, or "carry-forward" credits for promising to meet them in future years. It's all a bit of a mess; and it needs to be rethought and redone.
Kumbos: Hey buddy..."you get what you pay for" should have listened to your mother. Was the guy at the tire shop wearing a Kumbo shirt?
Warren Brown: Oh, let's not get nasty.
Vienna, Va.: Warren, I'm getting tired of constantly reading about the "damage" that SUV/truck/minivan drivers do to the environment. True, an improperly used SUV off-road can do some damage to grass, trails, creek beds, etc....but most owners almost never do that anyway. Second, the REAL damage done is done by those who drive too fast for conditions, drink and drive, use cell phones irresponsibly, use mind-altering drugs, use electric shavers, etc., and wreck their vehicles and hurt or kill others. In fact, if one of these morons is going to hit ME, I'd much rather be in a Suburban than a Geo Metro.
Warren Brown: Point well-taken, Vienna.
Washington, D.C.: Hello Warren, I enjoy your columns
What do you think of the Hyundai Elantra hatchback? Is this car worth a look if one is also considering Subarau Impreza sport wagon or the Matrix?
Warren Brown: Dear Washington:
The Elantra is a good, inexpensive economy car; but it's not in league with the Impreza or Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe. Hyundai has done a good job of improving product quality over recent years. But it still has a way to go before it catches up with, or surpasses Toyota, Subaru, or General Motors.
Dearborn, Mich.: Re: Mercury Villager / Nissan Quest production. Warren, I believe that after production of the Villager/Quest ceases in Ohio, Nissan is looking at introducing a redesigned Quest without Ford's help. A redesigned Quest was one of Nissan's show cars at one of the major auto shows this year (can't recall which).
Warren Brown: Dear Dearborn:
With Ford's help? What does Nissan's virtual owner, French automaker Renault, have to say about that?
Reston, Va.: Re: follow-up to Audi
No I haven't. I will be out of 9-3 lease (please take it back now) soon, and seems that Audi A4 might be a good choice. I'm just window shopping at this point.
Warren Brown: Okay.
Baltimore, Md.: Hi Warren,
What news on availability to you have on the Ford Escape Hybrid, or other such vehicles that are "supposed" to be available later this year or early next year, last I heard?
I want to get a hybrid, but thus far the models on the road are not doing it for me.
Warren Brown: Dear Baltimore:
The Escape Hybrid should be on display at the upcoming New York Auto Show. Should be ready for market for 2003 model year. GM, Ford, and DaimerChrysler, should also have hybrid entries in 2003, or certainly by 2004. Yes, the Big Three are eating Honda's and Toyota's dust in this segment. The new Civic hybrid is on its way to dealer showrooms this spring, I think.
For Vienna, Va.: OK, but can we at least agree that all of those irresponsible behaviors can cause more harm to those around us if we're driving big vehicles than small ones, and that SUV owners are as likely to engage in them as anyone else?
A woman driving an Expedition, talking on a cell phone and eating a burger ran a red light yesterday and nearly hit me. I pointed this out to her at the next red light, without reference to what she was driving, and do you know what she said? "You must just hate my truck! Tree-hugger!"
Idiots drive all kinds of vehicles.
Warren Brown: Dear Vienna:
I agree and disagree:
You can find bad drivers (let's not call them "idiots") in any vehicle. But a bad driver in a small vehicle can wind up causing the death of a driver in a larger one. It happens lots.
But, you're right. Trying to handle something as large as an expedition while holding onto a cell phone and a burger is asking for trouble. That lady needs an attitude adjustment.
Westport, Conn.: Hi Warren,
I had an A4 1.8t wit the CVT transmission. Very nice and smoother power delivery. But too much wheelspin!
Plus, as much as I love Audis, there ARE other front-wheel drive cars out there for less. But with quattro, no comparison to anything else, even BMW and Mercedes. Their systems are, I feel, inferior.
Warren Brown: Thank you, Westport.
The "politics" of SUVs: I bought my Isuzu Rodeo back in '94 (way before SUVs became trendy) because I needed something roomy to get my stuff to and from school. Now I'm considered an automotive pariah/status seeker due to the car I drive, which, by the way, has more than 90,000 miles on it now and has seen better days. What is up with this SUV bashing? Sour grapes? Envy? An easy way to be judgmental of others? I think it's sickening.
Warren Brown: It's all of those things, including genuine concern for the environment.
Tucson, Ariz.: Warren,
I am considering either a Focus SVT, VW GTI (1.8T) or Subaru WRX. What is your opinion on the reliability, repair costs and dealer customer service on these cars?
Warren Brown: Dear Tucson:
It's too early to talk about the reliability of any of those new models. Not enough field experience. But, given Subaru's product history, I'm willing to bet that the WRX will be the one with the fewest problems. But I prefer the looks and overall feel of the Focus SVT.
Okay, good people. Gotta go. Please stay in touch. email@example.com, or firstname.lastname@example.org. See you all next week.
Austin, Texas: There you go making me think again, Mr. Brown! What you said about afflicting the comfortable and comforting the afflicted is really interesting. In a way, it's saying comfort needs to be punished, and money buys comfort, and therefore money is evil-- or at least profit is. So since the afflicted have no money, they're not evil, but how do you comfort the afflicted? It often means helping, and helping can mean, for example, opportunity or medicine or-- well, money. Shoot, all of us want money, unless we've renounced the material world in a spiritual pursuit or something. I personally feel it is the moral thing to do, if you're comfortable, to help the afflicted in some way, but there are many ways and opinions about that too. I grew up comfortably, and now I'm afflicted (and so is the car I can't afford to fix- to the tune of $720!). It's interesting to be what I consider myself to be- a liberal- who is dying for a working car and lots more money. It isn't so simple, is it?! - Melanie
Warren Brown: Oops, had to get this one in. Thanks, Austin. Pay attention, media.
See you all, later.
That wraps up today's show. Thanks to everyone who joined the discussion.
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