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Pop Talk
With David Segal
Washington Post Music Critic
Wednesday, Dec. 18, 2002; Noon ET

For a few years, he played guitar and sang in a deeply terrible cover band, the Bremers. The highlight of the group's show was a stalker version of "Leavin' on a Jet Plane," which was retitled "You're NOT Leavin' on a Jet Plane." He's been at The Post for going on eight years, first as a Book World editor, then a Business section reporter and finally as pop music critic. He enjoys the work and would like to point out that he is writing his bio, even though it's written in the third person, like someone else wrote it. Segal is doing that so he appears more important than he is, which is hilarious when you think about it!

The transcript follows.

Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.

David Segal: Season greetings,

I wrote up my top ten list for the paper today and I'd like to read yours. Or feel free to jeer at or applaud my list. This will be our last get together for a few weeks, so maybe this is a good moment to reflect on what kind of year it was musically. Personally, I was encouraged. I especially enjoyed all the attention paid to those Definite Article Bands, like, the Doves, the White Stripes, the Hives. The DABs didn't really light up the Billboards but they earned plenty of attention and they stirred things up a lot.

Alright, two minutes to show time, so I'll shut up and we'll get rolling.

washingtonpost.com: Giving 2002 a Final Spin: The Year's Tops and Flops by David Segal, Washington Post Staff Writer, Wednesday, December 18, 2002

BLACKsburg, Va.: Dave,

Yaay for you for including "Black Letter Days" in your top 10. I haven't heard it yet, but if I'm very good, Santa might bring it. I was at the Black Cat show, about 15 feet from the stage, and the speakers were so loud that my feet were throbbing all night! Is this a common occurrence at loud shows? Also, when's your article on him coming out, and what's your take on "Teenager of the Year," the musical?! Thanks.

David Segal: Black hasn't lost any of songwriting chops. Nor has he lost his ability to howl bloody murder, which he did throughout that Black Cat show. I'm bummed that he didn't give Black Letter Days a little more voltage. His version of "Jane the Queen of Love" live was just astounding. On the album, it's mellowed out just a tad. I asked him why he doesn't scream more on his albums and he said something like "the screaming was getting gaggy," as in, it had begun to feel like a gag, or a stunt.

Well, bring back the gag, Frank!

My interview with Black will run in the next week or so.

Vienna, Va.: Most Baffling Critical Swoon: "The Eminem Show" -- Sorry, well, actually I'm not, but I just don't get it. That sing-songy cadence to all of his recordings sounds like something you'd hear in a five year old's nursery rhyme (obviously, the lyrical content isn't). I can't get past that to even begin to appreciate the word-play. Back to the sandbox for him!

By the way, the "Talking in Concert" feature on the Web deserves to a run in the print edition.

David Segal: Well, he's not for everybody. Actually, he sort IS for everybody. I mean, I can't think of an artist today, or in the last two decades, that has Em's broad base of appeal . It extends to graying critics to kids. My 9 year old niece likes Eminem as much as I do. I think the Beatles are the last act to pull that sort of thing off.

Headline of the Day: "'Spinal Tap'" Join National Film Registry"

David Segal: I like it.

Washington, D.C.: What is the Eurovision song contest? Does it pose any threat to us here in the U.S.?

David Segal: The Eurovision song contest is a hoary tradition on the Continent and a really memorable crap-fest of cheesy concert music. I saw it a few times in England. If I remember correctly the thing goes on for hours and hours, while performers -- most of them making pop/dance piffle -- compete before international judges. Just tabulating the results takes forever. It's sort of riveting television though because all of Europe is involved. It's like a beauty contest with the camp volume set to eleven. Not sure if any lasting acts have won the thing.

Anyone?

Philadelphia, Pa.: David,

Sadly, you continue to miss, over and over again, the point of "The Rising." It's not about Sept. 11. It's about people's REACTIONS to Sept. 11. Listen to the main themes: faith, hope, love. Sure there's some minor-key despair ("You're Missing"), and there are some jarring (moodwise) juxtapositions between songs. But who's emotions weren't all over the map after Sept. 11? And the record does an excellent job of capturing the confusion, and more importantly, the sense and feeling that the human spirit will ultimately prevail.

No, it's not Bruce's best album, but it's ultimately far more satisfying than anything Eminem has done. And it certainly does a better job of capturing what it's like to be alive on our planet (specifically in the U.S.) in the days and months following Sept. 11.

David Segal: A lot of people -- millions in fact -- feel the same way. I think I do understand what Springsteen was trying to do. I just think A) the songs on this album are almost all pretty weak and B) it was produced to within a shiny inch of its life. This thing should have sounded like Nebraska. It should have brooded. Instead, it has the technicolors of a Tim McGraw album.

Long Beach, Calif.: Any chance of you inflaming the
passions of the people by declaring
"Southern Rock" to be a solution
to the "problems" over all these years with rap and other "mixed" music?

David Segal: That approach won't work, Mr. Lott.

Capitol Hill, D.C.: Axle Rose? Who CARES? With his tired hair and bad facelift self!

David Segal: He did have a face lift. And he is out of his mind. Rumor has it that he skipped the Philly concert because he got engrossed by a basketball game.

Eurovision: Didn't ABBA win this thing? Or would they not be considered long-lasting? You've got to admit they had the camp aspect covered!

David Segal: ABBA is certainly the kind of band that would fight for the Euro V award. I love ABBA, however. Think ABBA gone bad when you think of Euro V.

Washington Impatient Guy.: Type faster! You on crack?

David Segal: Ok ok!!!

Foggy Bottom: Cheers for putting Eminem at the top of the list. I noticed that No Doubt's "Rock Steady" was a runner-up....why didn't it make the top 10? I really thought that was one of the best albums of the year.

David Segal: I really like "Rock Steady" but I think it actually came out in late 2001, so I figured I could get away with sneaking into the honorable mention list but not the main one.

Spin, by the way, chose the White Stripes album as album of the year and that came in 2001. Weird.

New York, N.Y.: Not a bad list David, but Coldplay's gotta get some more love! That album is amazing, it still hasn't come out of my disc changer once! And while their new single Clocks is OK, I'm baffled as to why they did not release "The Scientist" as their second single -- as they did in Europe. A slower song, yes -- but "The Scientist" may be my favorite song of the year, incredibly moving.

David Segal: I liked Coldplay's album plenty, but not as much as you and a whole lot of equally rabid fans of theirs. I chose my list based on a simple question: what did I play the most.

Columbia, Md.: Dave, I don't have my cd collection with me but I'll throw in my top 5 (off of the top of my head):

- Paul Weller, Illumination
- Wilco, Yankee Foxtrot Hotel
- Coldplay, Rush of Blood
- Cuisine Non-Stop (pretentious but decent compilation of French tunes compiled by David Byrne)
- David Segal, Style Mix

David Segal: This list is genius.

Somewhere, USA: Didn't ABBA win the Eurovision contest with "Waterloo?" I seem to remember something of the sort from the Greatest Hits liner notes.

I'm not sure if this proves or disproves your point...

David Segal: I like Waterloo, though "Name of the Game" is my favorite ABBA tune.

Washington, D.C.: The Eminem Show is the best CD of the year? Please! Sure, he's got great skills, but I'm really sick of hearing about his mom, his wife and his daughter. On the other hand, the DVD that came with the CD is quite funny (where else can you see a cartoon Daryl Strawberry inhale an entire prison's worth of smack).

If you really want to see who's "saving" hiphop this year, look at the new Roots album. It's old skool and new sounding all at once, and doesn't contain a single reference to watches, cars, Kristal, or sneakers (Nelly, I'm giving you a very dirty look for that horrid Air Force Ones song).

And while mainstream hiphop is crap, there's always lots of great stuff percolating just under the surface out there. Same for rock, for that matter.

David Segal: The Roots album is might fine, you're right.

Washington, D.C. : So I just moseyed on over to my corner Border's and bought my 27-year-old self a copy of Justin Timberlake's new CD. And I'm feeling pretty OK about it. What's wrong with me?

David Segal: You miss Michael Jackson? That's just a guess.

Bawlmer: You wondered, over the summer, if the Hives were for real. You seem now to believe (as I do) that they are. What convinced you?

David Segal: The fact that no hoax can go on this long without someone spilling the beans.

Washington, D.C.: And You Will Know Us By the Trail of Dead (Source Tags & Codes)(Interscope) -- hands down the most gorgeous, exciting record of the year, and woefully ignored by the mainstream media. Also, they played one of the most mesmerizing concerts in all of my 40 years at the Black Cat earlier this year. Locally, Q and Not U, on Ian McKaye's Dischord label, is the band to watch: their new album Different Damage shows them pushing the post-punk envelope in quite incredible ways (they are also terrific live).

David Segal: Good ideas. I loved two songs on Trail's last album, but the rest of didn't impress me much. They did send the greatest PR photo of the year. It's a shot of the band in mid thrash, with the drums about to sail in different directions and everyone in the band leaping. It looks like a bomb went off right before the camera clicked. I should have framed it.

My top ten: Hi David,

Usually I agree w/your reviews, but must respectfully disagree w/all your choices this year. It's a big world. Here are mine, in no particular order

Pere Ubu - St Arkansas
Neil Halstead - Sleeping on Roads
Rosie Thomas - When We Were Small
Mirah - Advisory Committee
Cousteau - Sirena
Cinerama - Torino
Gourds - Cow Fish Fowl or Pig
Joseph Arthur - Redemption Son
Jurassic 5 - Power in Numbers
Sonic Youth - Murray Street

Have a good holiday....

David Segal: Thanks.

Alexandria, Va.: Your top ten list is fine, I guess, and it is too short by definition, but how could you ignore the new Solomon Burke album or the Bob Dylan Rolling Thunder set? The inventiveness in those two albums seems to me to far surpass a lot of what's out there these days. Might I also recommend the Chris Robinson solo album? A surprisingly strong record, and I've read glowing reviews of his shows. By the way, I understand what you're saying about the Springsteen record, but your review and subsequent comments go too far. In short, it's not as good as it could have been. Still, it's very good.

David Segal: Haven't heard the Robinson album, but I love the Black Crows. The Rolling Thunder album is indeed terrific.

New York, N.Y.: I agree with your assessment of Missy and Eminem's latest. Hip hop is my favorite music, but I like all kinds. And I know someone declares rock dead every couple of years, but it seems to me that rock is dead, in certain ways. For instance, its place in pop culture and in setting trends, offending people, inspiring people, etc. Seriously, Eminem IS Elvis. There aren't any rockers even close. For folks who don't agree, tell me then, what rocker, in the world, could open a movie like Eminem did?

David Segal: Yeah, who? WHO?

Justin Timberlake? Not!

15th and L: Please don't me tell you like ABBA. If so, then you're almost as useless as Ken Barnes of USA Today.

David Segal: You're telling me that you can resist the charms of "Fernando," the charms of "Take a Chance on Me" and "Dancing Queen"? I'm proud to stand with Ken Barnes on this one, even though I've never met the man nor heard his name before.

Arlington, Va: Glad to see Black Heart Procession on your list. Saw the show at the Black Cat but haven't yet picked up the record. Gotta love when the singer dons a horse's head on stage.

Also - Queens of the Stone Age. Finally a real rock band.

David Segal: That BHP show was fabulous. Interestingly, the concession stand was mobbed after they were done playing. Never seen anything like it. Scores of people just marched toward the back of the room and started buying up BHP albums.

Washington, D.C.: Do you have any tour info on Randy Newman? I finally listened to Nilsson Sings Newman and have confirmed my opinion that Newman's on of the greatest living songsmiths of our time. Thanks.

David Segal: Check out pollstar.com for all tour data.

Somewhere, USA: I agree that Eminem is pretty amazing, but I can't get behind Dre's beats. Don't they strike you as really bland? Imagine if Em had the Bomb Squad behind him. I'd like to hear something more challenging behind him.

VH-1 ran the Clash documentary "Westway To The World" a few times over the weekend. It was great. They're up there with the 3 or 4 greatest rock bands ever, regardless of what John Lydon says (I think he's just jealous that they had a career, which he never managed).

After hearing you rave about the Flaming Lips "Soft Bulletin," I grabbed it a couple of weeks back. I've been diggin' it - a friend asked me what it was like. I told him to picture Neil Young channelling Jonathan Richman's, with the Moody Blues on good acid backing him up. Oh, and John Bonham drops by.

You're my favorite cricket.

David Segal: Thanks. I still go back to the "Bulletin" every few months. There's nothing quite like it.

Washington, D.C.: Favorite album: Wilco's Yankee Foxtrot Hotel
Favorite show: Wilco at 9:30 Club

Coming from someone who'd never heard this band before this year. They've definitely won me over. For related music, try the Uncle Tupelo greatest hits, too.

David Segal: I like the Uncle Tupelo best of album, too. Some classics on that thing. I didn't fall for YFHotel the way a lot of other people did. It just never got under my skin. I enjoyed their show, though.

Washington, D.C.: 2002 was an excellent year for folk music.

Some of my favorites:

Altan - The Blue Idol
Waterson:Carthy - A Dark Light
John Tams - Home
Jorma Kaukonen - Blue Country Heart
Kathryn Tickell - Back to the Hills
Christy Moore - Live at Vicar Street
Providence - A Fig for a Kiss
Linda Thompson - Fashionably Late

David Segal: Thanks for the list.

Washington, D.C.: How, how could you not list the genius of Camper van Beethoven's "Tusk", this year's comeback wonder?!

Oh, and what about Rhett Miller's solo excursion?

David Segal: The caller refers to Camper Van Beethoven's recently released version of Fleetwood Mac's "Tusk." Never heard it, but apparently it's the band playing every song from "Tusk," which is just a concept. Can't speak to the execution.

Miami F-L-A: Hey Dave,

I'd love to comment on your top-10, but with the exception of hearing "Without me" and "Cleaning out my closet" ad nauseum and one Missy song over and over, I haven't been exposed to any of your selections -- and I'm a huge music fan.

Since radio has been reduced to repetitive pop crap, MTV and VH1 no longer play videos, and CDs cost $20, how's a person supposed to find good music without spending a lot of time or money?

I should point out that I'm too old to find hip hop relevant and too young to think Springsteen is still any good. Is there anything out there that is just plain intense, passionate, and fresh that doesn't fall into those genres?

David Segal: You're a candidate for satellite radio. That's about the only place to find the sort of music you're talking about. Everyone who has shelled out for it loves it.

Arlington, Va: I completely agree with you about the Citizen Cope record. I think the Doves "Last Broadcast" deserves to be on this list, too -- in fact I"d argue the Doves deserve a mention in the "Live" category,too: that was one of the best shows I saw this year (at the 9:30 Club, September 12). What were your other favorite live experiences this year?

David Segal: I was pretty amazed that the Cope album didn't fare better. I heard it and thought that it would take off. What do I know. I'm not sure that Cope is sellable the way that, say, Vanessa Carlton is sellable.

Other favorite shows: Springsteen, David Cassidy, Black Heart Procession. I'll think of some more as soon as I hit send.

Washington, D.C.: I'm absolutely desperate and hope someone out there can help! I just learned that David Letterman devoted a whole show to Warren Zevon at the beginning of November. Any idea at all how I can get a tape of this?
Thanks so much.

David Segal: I don't know. I'd check out a Zevon web site, I guess. It was a pretty amazing hour of television. I thought Letterman handled it extremely well and Zevon's calm in the face of death is sort of chilling.

Washington, D.C.: Please tell me you'll be reviewing Patti Smith at 9:30 on January 3rd!? I'm unable to go and I DO live vicariously through you. You ROCK!!!

David Segal: I think I'll be there, though I'm heading to Hampton Va. on the 2nd to catch Phish. She's giving a lecture at the Future of Music Conference at Georgetown on either the 4th or 5th. Why don't you crash that party if you can't get to the show?

NW D.C.: The Vines are truly a terrible Nirvana rip-off ... Weird Al's parodies are better homages. I appreciate your camaraderie there, but don't get the Hives, who seem like nothing more than Blur knock-offs turned up to 11.

David Segal: The Hives, like the Donnas, make a lot more sense when you see them perform live. They're just fun. Not pushing any boundaries, nothing new. It's a retro goof, more than anything. I didn't play the album too much, but I'll never forget that show.

Re: Eminem is Elvis: Come back in 30 or 40 years and see if people are still listening to Eminem, and if he still has the same resonance with the general public that Elvis (or the Beatles) still holds today. Until then, let's defer the superlatives.

David Segal: Interesting. I wonder if Em will wear as well as El. Probably not. But for most of El's career he was as mainstream as music gets -- his rebel years were over just as soon as people like Ed Sullivan figured out that he was a polite young man. He was quickly neutralized and spent the bulk of his years making pretty schlocky stuff. Em can't really sell out that way. He'll have to find some way to retain his edge despite his popularity. That'll be incredibly difficult.

Top Ten: in no particular order (and yes, I should diversify):

Flaming Lips -- Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots
The Liars -- They Threw Us All in a Trench and Stuck a Monument On Top
Desaparceidos -- Read Music/Speak Spanish
Spoon -- Kill the Moonlight
Matt Pond PA -- The Nature of Maps
Frank Black -- Black Letter Days
Yo La Tengo -- Sounds of the Sounds of Science
Sonic Youth -- Murray Street
Flaming Sideburns -- Save Rock 'N Roll
The Vines -- Highly Evolved

David Segal: Lots of Sonic Youth lovers out there.

Thanks for the list.

Adams Morgan: I know that neither are in need of more hype, but Im surprised that the Flaming Lips and Clinic did not appear anywhere on your years best. Different strokes for different folks, but I thought Yoshimi Battles The Pink Robots and Walking With Thee were the two best albums of the year. Your thoughts?

David Segal: I liked it, but I guess I found it far less interesting than "Bulletin" and parts of it were kind of boring to me.

Washington, D.C.: Dave, problem. I'm 24, but I've only heard of about 10% of the bands mentioned today. Should I be worried?

David Segal: Yes.

The state of the industry: Your top 10 list: I consider myself pretty connected...apparently not in pop culture. When I was younger I knew all the words to all the songs. Now, at 45, I've never even heard of the artists. What's wrong with this picture?

David Segal: Talk to Mr. 24.

The real answer is that there aren't places to hear any of these bands. I mean, did anyone hear Cope this year? If you didn't catch his MTV2 video, forget it. And there was no way to hear Black Heart unless you went to their show or bought their album. The sheer amount of music out there is astounding but the avenues to hear any of it seem to dwindle by the year. Radio is a horror, of course.

Don't blame yourself, in short. Blame radio. Or Canada.

Arlington, Va.: It's too bad no one ever mentions the late Eva Cassidy in their "best-of" album lists. She truly was one of the great jazz voices of recent memory and is consistently at the top of the charts in Europe.

David Segal: Did she release an album this year?

Arlington, Va.: My top ten for the year would definitely have to include:

Beck - Sea Change
Canyon - Empty Rooms
Pocket Rockets - Love Or Perish
Metropolitan - Down For You Is Up
Sonic Youth - Murray Street

David Segal: More Sonic Youth!

Arlington, Va.: I'll second that nomination for Paul Weller's Illumination. I saw a few weeks ago in Rimini, Italy and it was one of the best shows I have ever seen. He did some Jam tunes, some Style Council, and lots of the new songs. The album is BRILLIANT, and he is still getting it done, even after being on the music scene now for what, 30 years?

David Segal: Weller is excellent though I've found him a little harder to bear in recent years. He's got a precious side that would peek through some of those Jam songs (SMithers-Jones, e.g.) and then bloomed in his Style Council days. I liked the live album he released earlier in the year, though. That voice.

This Charm City Man: Dave-

It probably won't come up on many lists because it doesn't really have a genre (much like Citizen Cope in that regard), but Chuck Prophet's "No Other Love" was my favorite of '02. And his crazed show at Iota was mesmerizing and, at times, frightening.

David Segal: Sorry I missed that one.

Jefferson, Md.: My top five (and I'm being fair, I only purchased five releases this year):

-Sonic Youth "Murray Street"
-Interpol "Turn On The Bright Lights"
-Wilco "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot" (after owning this album for six months, it finally "clicked" last week)
-Pearl Jam "Riot Act"
-Elvis Costello "When I Was Cruel"

Favorite live moments:

-Elvis Costello, "I Want You" at Wolf Trap in June (No, I'm not praising the drunks who were yelling during the entire performance. Sorry guys.)

-Sonic Youth, "Shadow of a Doubt" at the Recher Theater in November. Haunting.

David Segal: Thanks. There's a consensus forming around "Murray Street."

Fairfax County, Va: Maybe it's too folkey to make your list, but for my money, the latest album from our late local songbird Eva Cassidy was the #1 new album of the year. It's called IMAGINE (after the John Lennon song) and debuted at #1 in the United Kingdom this fall....

David Segal: She's still huge in England. Kind of amazing.

Where the tunes are...: Hey, since we're bemoaning the state of radio and MTV, why not put in a plug for internet radio? I'm actually pretty late to this party, having discovered it only recently. But I'm in love with it. There's stuff to suit any taste, and it will introduce you to new acts.

David Segal: I've plugged 'Net radio before and will do it again. I'm a fan of KCRW but there are tons of college radio stations out there. And don't forget Little Steven's show on 94.7 on Sunday night. Garage rock from every decade, plus commentary from a guy who knows a ton about music.

Washington, D.C.: Any thoughts on Rufus Wainwright?

David Segal: Didn't hear much from him this year. I really loved his last album.

Elvis Impersonator: I still remember one of my friends coming up with a long list of reasons for his definitive declaration that Vanilla Ice was the new Elvis.

Of course, this was a few years ago. I remind him of it every now and then, just because I can.

David Segal: Yeah, rub that one in.

I knew Vanilla Ice. Vanilla Ice was a friend of mine. Vanilla Ice is no Eminem.

Ok, we'll have to end on that lame attempt at a parting joke. I guess I won't commune with y'all until next year. See you at Phish? Patti Smith?

Until we meet again,

you're just going to have to

Rock on with your bad selves.

David