One Year Later: Airline Security
With Greg Schneider and Sara Kehaulani Goo
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, Sept. 11 at 1 p.m. ET

One year after unprecedented attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon, how has the airline industry changed?

With unresolved internal tensions the new Transportation Security Administration has made few changes. Many airlines face financial difficulties, hiring and retention problems as well as security breaches. As for security, only a few airports have uniformed federal screeners at checkpoints while others still use private screening companies. Bomb detection systems are behind schedule and the Senate recently voted in controversial move to allow commercial pilots to carry guns in cockpits.

Post Financial staff writers Greg Schneider and Sara Kehaulani Goo were online Wednesday, Sept. 11 at 1 p.m. ET, to discuss airline security and industry changes since last year's attacks.

The transcript follows.

Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.

Greg Schneider and Sara Kehaulani Goo: After the terrorist attacks last year, the public demanded action to fix America's shabby, uncoordinated, ineffective system of airport security. Congress decided to federalize the job, and created the Transportation Security Administration to carry it out. A year later, a handful of airports have the new federal security system, but most are in transition and the agency itself has been hung up in indecision and leadership issues. The public's tolerance of tougher security measures seems to be wearing thin. We're interested in hearing your thoughts as travelers and will do our best to answer questions.

Chicago, Ill.: My girlfriend is a small blonde woman who looks about as physically threatening as Estelle Getty. I'm a tall dark guy, and big time frequent flier, who's always scowling in airports because I resent being treated like a common criminal just for wanting to fly somewhere. Yet can you guess which of us has to take their shoes off through security and submit to the third degree search EVERY TIME? These searches can't be random because we know she's going to get picked, and she's got nothing in her profile to set off any alarms. In fact, I'm convinced that that's precisely why she gets searched -- it's safe because they know they won't find anything and there's no chance of a profiling complaint or anything else messy. Long story short - how much longer are we going to endure these farcical security measures in our airports? Thanks.

Greg Schneider and Sara Kehaulani Goo: This is probably travelers' most common complaint. The system for picking out passengers for extra scrutiny is partly random, partly not. Factors such as how you paid for your ticket, when you bought it and whether you have checked luggage can trip the system and get you a date with the hand wander. Also, screeners sometimes can use their own discretion to pick out someone for a search. So it's hard to say what's happening here...Security doesn't seem to make sense to a lot of passengers because the system is still not standardized and rules remain unclear to those who have to carry them out.

Wheaton, Md.: Greetings,

It seems to me one of the reasons for continued security problems is political correctness. Do you really believe its necessary to take scissors from 80 year old ladies while unscreened foreign nationals are loading luggage on the planes? Profiling may not be popular, but isn't it necessary for effective security?

Greg Schneider and Sara Kehaulani Goo: A lot of people assume that security at the airport is poor because they witness what seems to be a shake-down of grandmas and children. But security experts say terrorists intentionally try to look un-threatening and try to use un-threatening people as dupes to carry out their plans. Drug runners do this. Having said that, the federal government is now reviewing all the prohibited items not allowed in carry-on bags. They've changed it a few times, wondering whether, for example, baseball bats should be allowed.

Vienna, Va.: Will allowing pilots to have guns really ensure safety on a plane? What happened to the idea of air marshals? Do other countries allow their pilots to have weapons for self defense or security?

washingtonpst.com: Senate Votes to Allow Pilots to Carry Guns (Post, Sept. 6)

Greg Schneider and Sara Kehaulani Goo: Those are good questions. Israel is often cited as a country whose pilots are armed. It's hard to verify that, though; some experts say Israeli pilots are not armed but that armed air marshals are on every flight. The U.S. now has several thousand air marshals, up from fewer than 40 before last year's attacks. That's still nowhere near enough to put them on every flight. Pilots say they want guns as a last line of defense; opponents point out that if cockpit doors are required to remain shut at all times, the pilots would never have any reason to shoot.

Vienna, Va.: Before Sept. 11 weren't pilots trained in defense programs and what they should do in a hostage situation?

Greg Schneider and Sara Kehaulani Goo: For decades, pilots and flight attendants were told to stay calm in hijackings, to cooperate with the hijackers, and just get the plane on the ground. It was always assumed the hijackers wanted to get somewhere -- usually Cuba. Suicide attacks were not a factor in that training at all.

Arlington, Va: I can understand doing a physical patdown if you set off the alarms but why do they do it when you don't? Cheap thrills, I imagine.

Greg Schneider and Sara Kehaulani Goo: A lot of flight attendants share that sentiment. At the security checkpoint, passengers are supposed to be patted down only if they set off the alarm--at least, that's the way the federal government wants to train its new screeners. That said, there are weapons and explosives that won't set off the metal detector.

Somewhere, USA: What good does it really do?: I mean, lets examine this for a minute in the larger scope of travel. Trains travel freely with no security checkpoints. Boats travel freely without and security checkpoints, as do cars, trucks and buses. Metro has no security checkpoints. A terrorist could take a bomb on Metro right underneath the city, he could drive a car right up to the Capitol, or he could walk a bomb right onto the Mall.

Why airlines? What about airlines makes them so special? If a bomb goes off in an airplane, yes that is a serious security risk, but are you saying then that air passengers are more worthy than train passengers?

This security system makes no sense to me.

Greg Schneider and Sara Kehaulani Goo: Those are all excellent points, worthy of losing sleep over. After 9/11, Congress wanted to focus on airport security first because it was the most obvious weakness. Also, passenger jets are fairly unique weapons in that they can deliver enormous energy onto hard-to-reach targets. The Transportation Security Administration has people looking at all different modes -- railroads, ports, etc. -- but its money and mandate has so far been overwhelmingly focused on commercial aviation.

Washington, D.C.: The Transportation Security Agency has been beset by delays in both federalizing the security screeners and installing check-baggage screeners at all major airports. How long before we can expect security to be up to the standards set in the law passed last year? ...and the $64,000 question: How much more secure will we be at that time?

Greg Schneider and Sara Kehaulani Goo: Do we get the cash if we answer this?... Jim Loy, the head of the TSA, insists he will meet the deadline for getting federal passenger screeners into all airports by Nov. 19. Even critics say these new screeners are far more professional-seeming than the ones they replace. Bomb detectors are supposed to be in all airports by Dec. 31, but Loy told the Senate yesterday that 20 to 35 airports won't make it (and we don't know which ones). As far as how much more secure we are, the simple answer is: The fact that cockpit doors are now reinforced and flight crews are suspicious of everyone probably offers more security than anything else.

Virginia: Yes, and we see how effective the new cockpit doors are.

MANY of our nation's civilian pilots who fly for the major airlines were trained by the US Military. These people were trained to use weapons; why not take advantage of the training for which we as taxpayers have already paid? Let them carry weapons.

Greg Schneider and Sara Kehaulani Goo: That's certainly a popular sentiment these days. Cockpit doors are not slated to be fully reinforced until sometime next year, and even that may be hard to accomplish. Pilots make persuasive arguments for guns -- so much so that they've convinced most of Congress. They'll probably get them.

Somewhere, USA: Who is in charge of changing federal/national airline and airport security? Is it Homeland Security, FAA or TSA?

Greg Schneider and Sara Kehaulani Goo: The TSA is now in charge of that, under the direction of the Department of Transportation. The agency is supposed to transfer to the new Homeland Security dept. next year.

Arlington, Va.: Just wondered but I have my doubts about whether the searches are random or based on based such as one way tickets. It seems to me the airlines are putting a code of some kind on the boarding passes and the screeners are looking at the boarding passes for that code to say who should be pulled out of line. Is this possibly true and could someone sue if they are basically on an airline's blacklist?

Greg Schneider and Sara Kehaulani Goo: They do designate "selectees" by putting a mark on boarding passes. Others are chosen at random at the checkpoint. Coming sometime in the near future: A complex computer system that will probe everyone's background, looking for suspicious purchases or affiliations, to better target likely terrorists. Of course, this raises scary issues about privacy...none of this is simple.

Arlington, Va.: Do you know about the incident this morning: Flight 979, an Airbus A320 traveling from Memphis, Tenn., to Las Vegas, landed at Fort Smith late Wednesday morning. 3 men had locked themselves in bathroom and per the Post negotiations are ongoing

washingtonpst.com: Plane Diverted Due to Suspicious Passengers (Post, Sept. 11)

Greg Schneider and Sara Kehaulani Goo: Yes, we're looking into that -- in between taking questions, that is. We'll have more details (cue music) in tomorrow's Washington Post.

Gaithersburg, Md.: First of all, the sooner all airports are converted to TSA screeners, the better. The last time I flew, I set off the xray machine at BWI. The TSA screener politely requested that I step aside, explained what she was going to do (use the wand, make me take off my shoes), was pleasant and personable, as well as professional and efficient.

In Indianapolis three days later, a non-TSA screener scowled at me, yelled at me when I expressed concern that my bags (which were on the conveyor and contained money and a digital camera) were not in my line of sight and could be taken anyone, grabbed my legs and squeezed them without warning/asking, and then berated me for my attitude when I requested that they warn me before they touched me.

I was "randomly" chosen at the gate (and I am 5'4", slim, female and very non-threatening), and the guards there wouldn't allow me to watch while they rifled through my bag. I had valuables in it and was worried about that. They taunted me and made insulting personal comments about my toiletries and reading material (fashion magazines). They cursed at me when I removed my shoes, and made me put them back on and take them off again and hand them to the searcher. I was humiliated and frightened. I ended up being the last person on my flight (which was Southwest), and then ended up delaying the flight because I couldn't find a seat on the airplane.

When will all of the airports be federalized so that there will be a standard of professionalism and credibility?

Greg Schneider and Sara Kehaulani Goo: Everyone seems to have an airport security experience similar to yours--or knows someone who does. Airports are in a transition state right now. TSA says every passenger should be able to keep a clear view of their belongings while being searched, but clearly not all the screeners are getting the message. But all airports are supposed to get federal screeners by Nov. 19, so we'll see what happens in a few months.

Washington, D.C.: What do you think of the recent actions of the reporters from Newsday, who intentionally tried to bring illegal items onto the plane (and were successful). Do you think this was within ethical standards?

Greg Schneider and Sara Kehaulani Goo: We don't really want to comment on other reporters' tactics. The Post has a strict policy about not breaking laws and always identifying yourself as a reporter as we gather information.

Bethesda, Md.: Greg and Sara,
Are there really changes made since last year? I'm so confused by what I read. I thought the Bush administration was all pumped up about checkpoints, air marshals, and flight crew training. But then there were problems with hiring enough checkers and major airlines going bust. So, what's the story? What kind of changes have been made and where?

Greg Schneider and Sara Kehaulani Goo: There has been a huge, round-the-clock, all-consuming effort behind the scenes -- really, all those cliches are true. The problem has been having something to show for all that at the airport. There are a lot more air marshals flying; there are thousands of federal screeners being trained and deployed (slowly); more than 1,000 bomb scanners have been purchased, though few have been installed. Studies are being done, issues discussed, blah blah blah; by the end of the year we'll have a far better picture of what's actually been accomplished.

Detroit, Mich.: 1. What is the probability that United Airlines will declare bankruptcy in the next six months? 2. If United Airlines does declare bankruptcy, and becomes a "low cost" carrier, which air carrier will be under the most financial pressure as a result?

Greg Schneider and Sara Kehaulani Goo: This is a perfect question for Keith Alexander, who covers the airlines and writes out Business Class column. Keith is conveniently out of the office at the moment, though; we'll ask him later.

Maryland: It seems that new security measures are a mess and really there is no uniformed format for any or all of the airports. Reagan National, Dulles and BWI for instance have constant construction, traffic and the checking points are random.

Greg Schneider and Sara Kehaulani Goo: Boeing was hired by TSA to go around to every airport in the country and make individual assessments of what each needed to install the federal security system. The effort is somewhat behind schedule. And it's a tough job; the old saw is that if you've seen one airport, you've seen one airport -- the point being that all are different. So you have this uniform federal security model and then you have to find a way to make it work in all these different places. That's partly why it's taking so long.

Arlington, Va.: Hate to think of it, but if another terrorist attack happens with a plane or at the airport, are we really prepared? What should passengers look out for and is there another "eye" watching if any situation occurs?

Greg Schneider and Sara Kehaulani Goo: Well, Sara just noted that you ARE the third eye. Passengers have become instrumental in creating an atmosphere of watchfulness aboard planes now. Also, the Dept. of Defense's NORAD radar network is watching flights more closely; there are more air marshals, and other federal agents flying with weapons; and most large airports have FBI offices on site, not to mention ATF and Customs agents. Of course, when the July 4 shooting took place at LAX, it was an El Al guard who shot the gunman.

Ashburn, Va.: Have there been any changes to no-fly zones and what is the military prepared to do in the event of another incident?

Greg Schneider and Sara Kehaulani Goo: Actually, good timing on that question. In addition to the no-fly zones around DC, New York and Pennsylvania today for the ceremonies, the FAA is also restricting flights over major sporting events. The military has stationed live missiles around Washington and is flying combat planes, so we know what they're prepared to do--if they can get there in time.

Somewhere, USA: Are the same standards for domestic flights expanded to foreign airports where U.S. citizens commonly travel?

Greg Schneider and Sara Kehaulani Goo: All flights with U.S. connections are supposed to follow the same standards, as well as whatever guidelines are in place in that country.

Austin, Tex.: I fly every Monday and every Friday. I say "Profile the lot of them." If the TSA will not (you can pretty much count on such a simple yet effective technique as profiling being rejected), then I will. I've done this before. Before boarding a flight, I walk through the area, looking for Arabs, or for Blacks or Hispanics who look like they might have been recruited into Islam in prison. And I make certain I watch their every move, including after we get on the plane.

This is the job of people being paid our tax dollars, and I want real results. Not politically correct hoo-hah.

Greg Schneider and Sara Kehaulani Goo: Wow. Well, that kind of ethnic-based profiling would never have pegged John Walker Lindh, or Timothy McVeigh, for that matter. DOT Secretary Norm Mineta is adamantly against ethnic profiling, BUT... the government does consider broader-based, behavioral profiling as central to the new security system. Look at the story Robert O'Harrow wrote last week in the Post about a system called CAPPS II, which is the next-generation profiling system now being developed.

Arlington, Va.: This is not so much a question as a comment, but I would just like to say that I flew recently, over the Labor Day holiday weekend, and I found the security to be convenient and courteous. I didn't have to wait in any lines, I was treated with the appropriate mix of respect and caution, and I had a very satisfactory experience overall. I had arrived at the airport more than two hours early, anticipating a hassle at security, but ended up sitting and watching Airport TV for most of that time. I flew out of Washington National Airport and LAX, which would have suggested security problems, but everything was great.

Thanks for your time.

Greg Schneider and Sara Kehaulani Goo: Thanks for your comments. That's the kind of experience the TSA seems to be shooting for.

Nashville, Tenn.: Big problem we are having is moving my 95 year old mother from a nursing home in California to Tennessee. We were set to move her at the end of September but have discovered that she has no drivers license and no birth certificate. Any ideas how we can fly her. American Airlines insists we need a state issued photo id for her.

Greg Schneider and Sara Kehaulani Goo: You could go to the DMV and get a state ID card, which looks like a drivers license, or you could get her a passport. Good luck.

Virginia: I understand the need for new security initiatives, but isn't stupid security even worse than no security at all? It gives a false sense that things are being handled, when in fact people often have no idea what is going on. This month's reader's digest summed it up - a note was included about a national guardsman, working in an airport, going through security during his shift change. They took away a pocket knife from him (as it wasn't an allowable item) at the same time they handed him back his automatic weapon. If this is true, it tells us all we need to know about the state of security in our nations airports.

Greg Schneider and Sara Kehaulani Goo: It's a tricky balance. The airlines want people to feel secure so they'll keep flying, but they don't want them to feel intimidated or inconvenienced by the security process. There have been terrible inconsistencies, and plenty of ridiculous anecdotes similar to the one you described. But it's hard to say it would be better to have no changes at all than to have the imperfect system now in place.

Austin, Tex.: You can't get a passport without a birth certificate.

Greg Schneider and Sara Kehaulani Goo: Ahh, good point. Call your representative in Congress; they love solving problems like this.

Greg Schneider and Sara Kehaulani Goo: Well, thanks to everyone for your comments and questions. This is a topic that seems to affect everybody, so we're always interested to hear experiences, impressions, etc.

washingtonpst.com:

That wraps up today's show. Thanks to everyone who joined the discussion.