• Pop Talk Archive • Recent stories by David Segal • Entertainment Guide: Music • Talk: Entertainment message boards • Live Online Transcripts • Subscribe to washingtonpost.com e-mail newsletters • mywashingtonpost. com -- customized news, traffic, weather and more

Pop Talk
With David Segal
Washington Post Music Critic
Wednesday, Feb. 12, 2003; Noon ET

For a few years, he played guitar and sang in a deeply terrible cover band, the Bremers. The highlight of the group's show was a stalker version of "Leavin' on a Jet Plane," which was retitled "You're NOT Leavin' on a Jet Plane." He's been at The Post for going on eight years, first as a Book World editor, then a Business section reporter and finally as pop music critic. He enjoys the work and would like to point out that he is writing his bio, even though it's written in the third person, like someone else wrote it. Segal is doing that so he appears more important than he is, which is hilarious when you think about it!

The transcript follows.

Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.

David Segal: Well, well. We meet again.

Lots to talk about -- shows by James Mercer of the Shins (amazing), Cody ChesnuTT (more amazing), George Strait (fine) and the Pretenders (great). Or we can talk about the new album by 50 Cent, one of the more eagerly awaited rap discs in a long while, which I reviewed in today's Post. (Hint: Big thumbs down.)

But I'll start with a shameless plug for a new local radio show. It's shameless because I am on the show.

Along with two friends -- Mark Goodman, a part-time musician and full-time freakazoid, and Dave McKenna, a part-time freakazoid, a City Paper columnist and music freelancer for the Post -- we've started what is blandly called The Music Show. Actually, Goodman started it. McKenna and I are just freeloading, really.

The concept: a talk show about all things pop related. Mostly, we yammer about shows we've seen, argue about bands and play songs. Also, we try very hard to prevent Goodman from playing music by schizophrenics, which, for some reason, he has a weakness for.

It's on WJFK, at 106.7, on Sunday nights from 10 to 11.

Be warned: We're rank amateurs, all of us. Our first show was last Sunday and it was damn near humiliating. This isn't false modesty. If you happened across the dial you probably thought three sophomores had claimed control of the station and were giggling into the microphones.

On to some trivia. Phil Spector-related.

In her autobiography, Ronnie Spector says she had just one misgiving about getting married to Phil. Of course, she had a thousand misgivings soon after the ceremony. But can you describe her pre-nuptial wariness? Here's a hint: it's bedroom-related.

Ok , enough preamble. As Boots Riley would say, Let's get out flex on, make the country go to war for Exxon.

Bring it.

Bethesda, Md.: Just curious -- did anyone from the Post review the David Gray concert last weekend? The best part of it was his drummer, who was a hilarious freak.

David Segal: We did review that one. Our guy thought it was just so-so and that the crowd wasn't that into it.

Maryland: Hey Dave,

Read your essay in the Bedford Reader(I think it's called "Excuuse Me?"). I really enjoyed it! We're using the book for my 12th grade composition class, and I was pleasantly surprised to see your name alongside Maya Angelou and E.B. White.

Now, how 'bout free tickets to one of the Sigur Ros shows in March?

But seriously, how are Buzzcocks live? They're opening for Pearl Jam in July at the Nissan Pavillion.

David Segal: The caller refers to a piece I wrote for the New Republic many years ago, the subtitle of which was "The case for politically incorrect humor." I never had a clue that anyone actually used the Bedford Reader, so glad to hear that it's out there somewhere.

I saw the Buzzcocks a few years back and I thought they were pretty unremarkable. Not all that into it. Seemed a little bored or a little too old for the job.

Annapolis, Md.: Thank You!
Thank You!
Thank You ... to whoever suggested KEXP (www.kexp.org) in Seattle for an internet radio station. This is a great site and I'm glad that they have Windows Media Player as an option. I haven't been able to listen to anything else. Although it's a little weird to them noting the time since they're 3 hours behind us. But for the great music, I'll adjust!

David Segal: Back to our discussion of 'Net music.

What is up with Rams Head crowd? Glo bracelets?: I attended the fantastic Todd Rungren concert last week. (You know, not many men Todd's age can pull off the two-tone hair.) He was amazing, but I could not believe the crowd. I know the intimate space lends itself to more banter between audience and musician, but some people just made fools of themselves yelling stuff out. Then some woman passed out glo bracelets and light sticks. THEN when Todd began a Beatles cover one woman said (OUT LOUD) That's not his song! I won't even get into all the plaid shirts and sweaters! I also heard some guy was saying lots of weird stuff at the Freedy Johnston concert and even tried to pass a note up to him.

Why? Why?

David Segal: The concert jackassess strike again. There are so many and they annoy in so many different and appalling ways. At the Pretenders show a week and a half ago, a woman next to me yakked nearly the entire show. At the James Mercer show, which was acoustic and solo, some jackass at the bar was yapping with a woman through every single song. It was really a magical little show and this ninny was missing it and kind of wrecking it for everyone else.

What's the deal with Sheryl Crow: OK, she is up for some Grammys.

She had an album released last year that got a lot of hype. She only had one radio single off that album. her past albums had several singles.

She went to Hawaii to record her last album, that and the fact that she is in good physical shape at age 40 were the only two things discusable about her last album. not to mention the only single released was all about marketing in that it was released during the summer and was a song about sun.

She headlined a so-so tour last summer that didn't get great reviews.

Why is she up for Grammy nomination?

David Segal: She's the perfect Grammy artist. She's got the patina of gravitas because she's not a kid and she's got the sentimental thing going, too, because she's been around so long. Her last album I thought was pop goo that she is too old to be playing. She could have gone Lucinda Williams. Instead, she veered toward Pink.

The Grammys aren't not a very good barometer of musical greatness and they haven't bee for a very long time. I'll remind listeners that in 1978, the Grammys gave best new artist to A Taste of Honey the quartet who gave us the disco trifle "Boogie Ooogie Oogie" instead of Elvis Costello.

Can you imagine?

Tampa, Fla.: Why is there always so much anticipation for mediocre rappers such as 50? Is it sex appeal? People's craving for violent 'hood tales?

David Segal: Well, rap is a huge market these days and with Eminem backing him, an avalanche of pre-release hype was inevitable. I'm pretty amazed by all this, mostly because the album is so weak. I would have thought that Em and Dre had better taste. But I guess they're suckers for a good biography. There's no other way to explain it. There are tons of rappers who are light years ahead of 50.

Arlington, Va.: David:

I went to 9:30 Club for back-to-back nights for the first time last week to see The Donnas and Aimee Mann. I can't tell you how amazing they both were (it was my first Donnas show, but I've seen Aimee before). The only problem was that on Thursday I was on such a high from the Donnas show that I didn't want to go see Aimee that night. Obviously I did and I'm so glad that I did. Do you ever feel like this after a great night of music, like you want to savor the show in your body, mind and soul before you see another show?

David Segal: Interesting. I don't have the option of savoring. But it's so unusual for that I run into a couple shows in a row that I rarely have this problem, if it can be called a problem. Last week, however, the Cody ChesnuTT show and the Mercer show were both outstanding and it didn't occur to me wish they'd been further apart, time-wise. I felt, rather, like I was on a roll.

Washington, D.C.: What do you think of Patti Smith?

David Segal: I'm a fan. I'd never seen her live until last month and she put on a pretty terrific show. She looks amazing, by the way, and she had a casual warmth about her that was endearing. Also, when she played "Gloria" the place went nuts. I don't like her political stuff, though, and her 2000 album "Gung Ho" bugged me to no end. She has a bad habit of taking herself seriously, which is usually perilous in pop.

KEXP: You're welcome. Their winter drive is coming up end of February. Please contribute. They have the coolest t-shirts as thank you gifts.

What amazes me is that this little station in Seattle raises as much money in a week as WETA. We are faithful.

Another taste? Yesterday's 11am playlist:

The Pale
Spoon
Amelia
Jesse Malin
Wilco
The Sun
Kinski
Interpol
Rainer Maria
Sarah Dougher
Subdwellers
Kilgore Trout
Leaders of the New School

www.kexp.org

David Segal: Free ad time!

Arlington, Va.: Segal,

Do you wear earplugs when you go to shows? All the time? Some of the time? Depends on the volume of music?

David Segal: You know, I never wear earplugs at shows. I really love loud music. I know it will be my undoing if I keep going bareback indefinately, but I've got to say, stuffing things in my ears takes away some of the fun. Just a side note: I've listened to music with two certifiable geniuses in day -- Clive Davis and Robert Pollard of Guided By Voices. Both listened to music at nearly earsplitting levels, Pollard in his basement and Davis in a hotel. I was amazed. It was actually too loud for me, which is saying something. For what it's worth, Phil Spector liked to listen to his playbacks in studios so loud that it freaked people out.

Ok, this isn't to imply that I'm a genius. But you certainly hear things in songs when they're turned up that vanish when they're turned down.

washingtonpost.com: Get Rich': 50 Cent Proves He's Just a Two-Bit Rapper by David Segal, Washington Post Staff Writer, February 12, 2003.

50 Cent -Land: David, my man, you're so off on this, its amazing. I respect your opinion, and I know you aren't one of those critics who dont respect rap, but I have to say, one thing you don't have is your ear to the streets. One of the reasons I believe Rap is so much more dynamic than Rock these days is the existence of a strong underground scene that keeps producing artists outside of the "corporate eye". 50 Cent definitely has got that street buzz - one of the strongest in a while. Dude just has something. You may be right technically about his rhyme skills, etc.., but I've been in the club and on the corner when his joints come one -- folks is diggin' him. Anyway, again, I think you missed the boat on this one.

David Segal: Well, you're not alone, I guess.

Tell me what you like about the guy. I get that he's got fans and I get that he's got a backstory. But give me your case for his music and lyrics.

Washington, DC: Mark Goodman? I loved Mark Goodman back when he was on MTV, what with all that big, poofy, curly hair he had. Wow, you are well connected!

David Segal: Not THAT Mark Goodman.

Vince Gill at 930?: Wouldn't the Birchmere be a better venue for him?

David Segal: He's too popular for the Birch, which I think seats 500 people.

Alexandria, Va.: If the same Vince Gill that I saw at the Ryman last year shows up at the 9:30 this weekend -- watch out. That man can scorch some strings.

David Segal: He is indeed a fantastic guitarist.

Columbia, Md: Any thoughts on the walkmen. I bought their record last week and it's still in my cd player. I hear they are originally from D.C.

David Segal: Yes, I believe that either all or nearly all of the band hails from D.C. though they all moved to NYC. I'm like their album, "Everyone Who Pretended to Like Me is Gone." It's pretty odd and wholly original -- strange rhythms, whooping vocals.

Greetings from San Francisco!: David-

Hey! Sarah (2-time Style Mix winner and DC ex pat) checking in from rainy San Francisco. Music life is verrrrry different out here! Gotta love commercial radio that plays Norah Jones, Tori Amos and Jack Johnson, but you have to hate that they drive even the good stuff into the ground after a while. And Steve Earle at the Fillmore ... 'nuff said.

So, worth my time to check out John Doe at a small club here next week? Stay warm ... hee hee ...

David Segal: Hey Sarah

I hope you're excellent and that you're digging San Fran life. Sounds like at least the radio thing is better there.

I've never seen Mr. Doe solo, so I'm afraid I can't help there. I just know that he was kind enough to sign an autograph for me when I was 18, which I still own.

Rock on, young lady.

Springfield, Va.: Hey there:

I have not heard your late night radio show, but I can't wait. I love the "raw" radio shows - the more sophomoric, the better.

I have a question, though, could you guys use a female voice on your show? My daughter has this uncanny knack for foresight into what music will be selling well. She likes the more alternative type stuff. I shop for her in the "new music" aisle, shall we say. And everytime she chooses something because it is new and fresh and she likes the sound, it gains in popularity and she feels cheated.

I said its a gift and she should consider working for a radio station. Her college choice, Marymount, has no radio station.
I just thought you guys might need some female counterpoints!...

Love the chats and your column!

A Mom (still trying to understand her child's music choices) in Springfield

David Segal: Oh, well if you like sophomoric, you'll love us.

Let's test this idea that your daughter has good talent scouting chops. What stuff has she picked out?

Washington, D.C.: Hi David- I love reading your reviews, and wanted to know if you have heard of the Saw Doctors. I haven't seen any reviews in the Post- more in Boston and NYC. They are a bunch of fun-loving guys from Ireland and put on a great rock show- they're playing March 12th at the 930 Club. I've been to a lot of shows and by far have the best time at theirs- so I think you should send a reporter!!!

Check out their site- www.sawdoctors.com - and I swear I'm not a promoter, just a HUGE FAN!

David Segal: Thanks and appreciate the tip.

50 Cent Land redux,: He's no Rakim or Eminem with his lyrics and lots of MC's have backstories. Let's not make this too difficult - It's music, not brain surgery. Just like there are artists with great skill/music who never seem to really break through (e.g., Common?), there are others that just have "it". What can I say, he has it. I do like his lyrics more than you do. And, there is a rawness to his lyrics and style that just comes through.

David Segal: Ok, give me some lyrics that you like. And make them something that we can print in a family chat!

Washington, D.C.: David, can you please explain the relative paucity on media attention surrounding these unfortunate circumstances and Phil Spector. Obviously, this is a horrible thing, but I'm surprised people aren't interested in the man. Courtney Love acting boorishly on a flight (imagine the shock!) got headlines above news of his arrest. And while I suppose some people might consider OJ Simpson to be a bigger star (why I have no idea), even Robert Blake got more ink.

And on a slightly related rant, why did and does "River Deep, Mountain High" get no airplay in this country? Perhaps you can investigate this phenomenon a la your "Jane Says" piece.

David Segal: I think the Phil Spector thing is merely on low boil at the moment. Fact is that we don't know much more about the case than we knew about 10 hours after he was arrested. When the trial starts, you'll get more about Spector than you need. It'll be a huge deal.

Now, why didn't "River Deep" get more airplay. Good question. Some background for folks who don't know: Spector threw his heart and soul and $20,000 into making the ultimate Wall of Sound song, with Tina Turner on vocals, with "River" and when the tune flopped it began his retreat into seclusion. It was actually a pretty big hit in Europe -- or maybe just England -- but it rose to something like 83 on the charts here and then sank. Why? In part because deejays at the time hated Spector -- he was a heavy handed businessman and arrogant, too, and he'd been off his hot streak. But the song, to be fair to those deejays, splits the crowd. George Harrison called it "perfect." A lot of others thought it was just insanely over the top. I think, to straddle the fence here, that they're both right.

Arlington, Va.: I always wear earplugs. They help filter out the distortion and I find I can actually hear the music better than I can without them. Certainly it makes it possible to hear the vocals over the drums and bass which are usually mixed up too loud.

David Segal: I recommend earplugs for everyone. I'm not suggesting you do what I do. Some shows really are ridiculously loud.

Alexandria, Va.: When did you first break into the music-writing business? I could be a contestant on rock and roll jeopardy and I write well and I work at a magazine, but I don't know how to start on this type of track. You seem like a funny and cool person, so maybe you could give me a helpful hint. Pleeease?

David Segal: Funny and cool, that's me! There's no set path to a job in the rock journalism world. I was a business reporter for a few years and kind of lucked into this. There's really no substitute for writing as much as you can about music, persuading high profile publications to print your stuff and building relationships with editors, who eventually have jobs to fill. It's a little like a game of musical chairs where the music starts just once every year or so. Be in the right place, know the right people, have the right clips.

Washington, D.C.: Which musicians have reputations as actually being down-to-earth, normal people? I read some interviews with 'rock stars' and they appear so affected and out of touch, it's a wonder they can even make music that reaches mere mortals.

David Segal: I expected Bowie to be a pretentious weirdo, but he couldn't have funner and more regular-seeming. Ditto with David Byrne, who patiently allowed a photographer to pose him all over Providence in ridiculous places for the photos for the profile I wrote. Ditto with Frank Black.

By the way, that Top Ten with Black IS RUNNING SUNDAY.

Our long national nightmare is over.

Why no guesses about the trivia question?!

Kalorama, Washington, D.C.: Did Phil like to sleep in the nude?

David Segal: You're on to something there, but not quite right.

Denver, CO: Phil & Ronnie Spector: Was she worried because he's circumsized?

David Segal: No. Good guess though.

Springfield, Va.: Oh, now you are going to make me try to think of those CD titles?...some of which are pretty bizarre..

But she was listening to Good Charlotte WAY before they ever hit MTV....I can remember them because they are local.

I need her here to stick up for herself. I can only remember some pretty scary CD covers, not the names of the bands. I can chime in by next week with specifics, though.

David Segal: Bring on the specifics in 2 weeks when we reconvene.

Capitol Hill, Washington, D.C.: So, how do you conduct these chats? In your jammies from home? Suit in the office (Sally Quinn's desk)?? Ball cap and jeans from Kinko's?

David Segal: I'm stark naked at the moment. And I'm drunk. Also, I'm surrounded by my 17 cats and my 3 dogs. Moreover, I am eating spoonfuls of Fluffernutter. All of this, by the way, is happening in my Ford Explorer, which I'm driving.

Ok, the truth is I'm sitting at my desk at work. And this isn't Quinn's desk! It's mine all mine!

Trivia question: He sleeps w/ the TV on? (Either that or she was concerned he's a jelous looser.)

David Segal: Nope.

re: Grammys: More of a comment than a question. The Grammys have never, to my mind, been about the music and/or musicianship. They are about sales. A peter case or steve earle, for instance, are never going to "win" a grammy to further bolster their sales, even though they can both write circles around the winners/promotional machine

David Segal: You got that right, my friend. How else to explain how Christina Aguilera beat Macy Gray for best new artist in 2001?

50 cent lyrics,: From Wanksta:

I got tha sickest phonetta, when it come to tha chedda
And if you play wit my paper, you gotta meet my berretta
Now shorty think I'ma sweat her, sippin on amoretta
I'm livin once than deada, I know I can do betta
She look good but I know she after my chedda
She tryna get in my pockets, homie and I ain't gonna let her
Be easy, stop tha bull----, you get your whole crew wet
We in tha club doin' the same ol' two step
Gorilla unit cuz they say we bugged out
Cuz we don't go nowhere without toast we thugged out

Is it poetry? Uh, naw, but some artists are poets, some aren't. You keep looking for something tangible and I'm saying its the intangibles that make folks dig him above and beyond the average rapper. He aint the greatest lyricist, he doesn't have the best mic skills but he's got "it". If "it" was easy to define there'd be more artists going gold (maybe platinum) in his first week. You gonna make me get Justice Potter on you (I know it when I see it)?

David Segal: Those Wanksta lines are better than anything I heard on "Get Rich," I must say. I think these are pretty good. I wish the guy had just ONE new take on this character -- the street thug poet. I just feel like I've met 50 before and that others have done something very similar and with a little more wit.

But thanks for sending this. Certainly, if we go by the sales numbers, you're right and I'm not.

Conyers, Ga.: I couldn't believe your 'sit on the fence' comment about River Deep, Mountain High. How Canadian, eh. That song just sends shivers up my spine any time I hear it.You must be the critic in the dell! An ex-pat.

David Segal: What I meant is that the song is both over the top (damn, I hate that cliche. Find something better, Producer Joe, and substitute it before sending this out) AND amazing. Both can be true. If you've never heard this song, people, check it out. I think there were something like 3 bass players, 5 piano players and a whole mess of drums. It's just insane and Spector spent weeks on it. He made Turner sing her lines literally hundreds of times before he got from her what he wanted to hear.

You could write a book about this tune. Why don't one of you do that? I'd read it!

Trivia: Did he want to sleep in separate beds/rooms?

David Segal: No. Think nude. Think insecurities.

About hip hop lingo: Please explain the words "shorty" and "boo" to us.

David Segal: Shorty is a girlfriend, most often. I've heard rapper use it as a reference to their buddies, but usually it's girlfriend.

Boo? No idea. Anyone?

Phil Spector: The bedroom was surrounded with mirrors, and there was a "Shaking bed" machine like they used to have in hotels?

David Segal: I like it. Actually above the bed was a huge photo of Lenny Bruce, which Ronnie found disconcerting, but that's not the answer I'm looking for.

Re: Phil Spector: He slept with a gun?

David Segal: No.

Phil Spector: Does he wear women's underwear?

David Segal: He did not. Though he did ask Ronnie to buy him an outfit that she'd picked for herself out of the ladies section of a department store. They used these matching suits for their Christmas greeting card one year.

Book about River Deep mountain High?: Sure you'd read it. I have a feeling you'd read the
Motley Crue bio given the chance!

David Segal: I strongly recommend the Crue biography, which I certainly read. The Dirt.

Wheaton, Md.: She was afraid his genitalia were miniscule?

David Segal: Nope.

Washington, D.C.: Whatever happened to your mix CD? When are you coming out with another one?

David Segal: I was told by my bosses here that I had to stop giving that away, because it violates copyright law. Yes, some buzz killer actually called to complain that I was flouting the law and I was very politely informed that I'd have to cease and desist. Bummer.

Boo is...: A male honey.

David Segal: Ok.

Trivia answer: SHE wasnt comfortable sleeping naked.

David Segal: No.

Re: the 50 cent article picture: Segal,

In that picture, is he wearing a bullet proof vest or a life jacket? Looks to me like he is about to go boating on the Tidal Basin in a paddle boat.

David Segal: That's a bullet proof vest. Can you believe it? I mean, seriously, how absurd. The guy shows up for a photo shoot in kevlar, like he's going to get gunned down while he's posing. Image making like that seems so inane to me.

Phil Spector: He liked to sleep in the nude but he had Ronnie turn off the lights until he was under the covers.

David Segal: You're very close!

Think hair.

Harrisburg, Pa.: I assume Mr. Spector was a virgin. But - he was a virgin with a GUN!

So - the Village Voice Jazz & Pop poll is out. Do you glance at at? Devour it? I find it lots of fun every year, even if I have no idea who half of the bands are. Although I rarely get through Christgau's annual 40-page essay on The State Of Pop Music.

I did notice that Shania Twain placed higher than The Pretenders on the overall list. Makes you wonder.

David Segal: Haven't seen the list. I'll check it out.

Phil Spector: He insisted on ... uh ... "performing"
clothed?

David Segal: Nope.

Ok, this was tough. I know only because I read Be My Baby, Ronnie's autobiography.

Spector was really self-conscious about his toupee, which he started to wear when he was 21. He insisted on taking it off in the dark, and then would apply this acetone -- the stuff used to remove nail polish -- to his noggin in order to get the toupee glue off. Acetone smells terrible. Ronnie couldn't stand the fact that Spector was so weird about his wig and she was aghast by the stench of his head, especially when he was feeling amorous.

Ok, people, on that sordid totally uncalled for and salacious note, we end this week's edition of Pop Talk.

I enjoyed myself and apologize that I couldn't get to more questions. Till next time,

Rock on with your bad self.

David