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Pop Talk
With David Segal
Washington Post Music Critic
Wednesday, April 9, 2003; Noon ET

For a few years, he played guitar and sang in a deeply terrible cover band, the Bremers. The highlight of the group's show was a stalker version of "Leavin' on a Jet Plane," which was retitled "You're NOT Leavin' on a Jet Plane." He's been at The Post for going on eight years, first as a Book World editor, then a Business section reporter and finally as pop music critic. He enjoys the work and would like to point out that he is writing his bio, even though it's written in the third person, like someone else wrote it. Segal is doing that so he appears more important than he is, which is hilarious when you think about it!

The transcript follows.

Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.

David Segal: Well, well.

We meet again.

Pop Talk time, party people. I've been in LA, where it is sunny all the damn time. A little work -- saw Macy Gray (not exactly hard work) did an interview (not exactly hard work -- but mostly just drove around the city, eating sushi and listening to Yeah Yeah Yeahs. Lordy, that is one terrific album. I was home too late Sunday to catch the show, which is a big bad bummer because I've got a feeling they're a fine live act. Also, spent a lot of quality time with the Kills, yet another guy-gal rock-blues duo. Excellent stuff -- very raw but very beautiful. Canned drums, weirdly enough, but it don't bother me none.

Gratuitious self-promotion moment: The Music Show, on 106.7, Sunday nights, 10 to 11. As a friend put it, my co-deejays and I have voices ideal for newspapers, but we have a good time and we talk about rock. Actually, we argue about pop. I can't promise you'll enjoy the show, but I can promise ... that we'll be speaking English.

OK, some trivia. I recently watched the whole hour of the Ed Sullivan Show one of the nights the Beatles performed. Pretty amazing to watch, especially with the commercials. (Show was sponsored by Kent cigarettes, which was selling a ciggy with an ASBESTOS FILTER. Can you imagine?)

I felt pretty bad for the performers who had to appear before the Beatles, since nobody in the audience gave a rat's about them. And the most pity-provoking performance of all came from a young comedian who, just before the Beatles returned for their second set, came out and sang an idiotic goff-ball ditty called "Do the Mouse." It was painful.

Who was the comic?

Let's get to the questions ...

Washington, D.C.: Well, after being turned off by the hype and holding out for a few years, I finally figured it was time to see what the White Stripes were all about, so last week I bought Elephant. Oh-my-lord, this has to be the most amazing, consistently great album of the year, if not past few years. Pefect melding of blues-rock form the past and '70s, but never sounding dated or like they are aping their influences. Dave, you were right -- the WS rule!

David Segal: I with you dude! I love the thing. There are a couple tracks I find myself skipping -- the quiet stuff and Meg's song "Cold, Cold Night." But there's a good 8 or 9 amazing rock songs on this thing. If you like Led Zep and you enjoy Lightnin' Hopkins and have an ear for punk and don't insist on bass with your guitar and drum, you'll enjoy this one.

Baltimore, Md.: So what's your take on the new Lucinda album? I was at Sound Garden (one of B'more's best record stores) last night, and the last song, "Words Fell," came over the speakers. As soon as the brushes began to slither around the snare drum and Lucinda began to moan, the entire store sighed, and slowed their gait. I immediately walked over to the W's and grabbed a copy.

But on the cover, it said that Time magazine called her "America's best songwriter." That made me want to put it back. Was that damning with faint praise, or is she just that pervasive?

David Segal: You can read my take on the Lucinda album here:

Maid of Constant Sorrow (Post, April 9).

I don't think Lucinda is America's greatest songwriter. She might not be in my top ten, actually. She's often quite amazing, though as I say in my piece I think she's amazing, songwriting-wise, just once on "World." It's funny how much bandwagon praise Ms. Williams' gets. She's put out a pair of incredibly dreary albums now, albums that I don't think would have been paid much mind, let alone been on the receiving end of so much hype, had it been someone else. I think America's pop critics have become her enablers. We have to stop encouraging this woman, I think. Either that, or we need to stage an intervention.

Springfield, Va.: Regarding your show on 106.7, it seems to me that WJFK could give you more than a one hour time slot (since outside of Don and Mike there is NOTHING on that radio station). Was it your decision to limit the show to one hour or theirs?

David Segal: The time slot is dictated by economics. My co-host, Mark Goodman, has raised the dough for this show by winning over a handful of companies that serve as our sponsors. So we're more like an infomercial than regular programming. There is, I think, a disclaimer at the start of our show, by JFK saying that we're not really their crew. But Mark has raised enough bucks for us to blab for an hour, no more, no less.

Cher in LA: Yep. Final tour. Riight ...

David Segal: Indeed. That's her last show like the farewell tour by Kiss, which never ends, is their last tour. And the Who. How many farewell tours have they launched? Nobody knows when to retire.

Young comedian: Bob Newhart?

David Segal: Nope.

washingtonpost.com: David Segal's review of the new White Stripes (Post, April 2) CD.

Bethesda, Md: David, thanks for introducing me to the White Stripes in 2001! I love their music; however,I bought Elephant the day it was released, and I wish I liked it more. I just don't love it like I do DeStijl and White Blood Cells and find myself agreeing more with Pareles' lukewarm review in the NYT than yours (and most others I've seen). Was it love at first listen for you? (Nevertheless, I can't wait to see them in New York on the 19th!)
Also, what's with Queens of the Stone Age opening for Zwan in Towson the other week? Many QOTSA fans missed all or part of their performance because we assumed (and were led to believe) that Zwan would be opening for them? Thanks!

David Segal: Not sure why you thougt Queens were opening. I think the ads were pretty clear, weren't they?

As for Elephant, it was love at first listen. Pretty close to it, anyway. A few songs I immediately thought were knock outs -- the version of "I Just Don't Know What to Do With Myself," "Hypnotize," "Ball and a Biscuit." Sorry you don't like the album more. Other fans have also said they like previous works more. DeStijl, especially.

Icebergville, Minn.: Ed Sullivan: George Carlin

David Segal: Nope. Good idea.

Washington, D.C.: Dave! Did you catch Elvis Costello guest hosting for Letterman a few weeks back? He was brilliant! A natural.

David Segal: I didn't see that, sad to say. I heard other great reviews.

And my dad said Costello would never last! Ha!

Downtown Australia: Hello.

Just a question out of curiosity. From time to time you've talked about albums that you treated coolly at first, but they grew on you with further listening.

Have you ever been sent seriously the other way by an album -- you started off by liking it, but the more you listened the more you wondered what you saw in it?

I know it happens to us mere mortals, but does it happen to reviewers too? And have you ever gone as far as giving an album a great review and later regretting it?

David Segal: Interesting question. I certain it's happened, though I can't recall an instance at the moment. I should comb through the database. I have at times been lukewarm, or mildly upbeat, about an album that I wished I'd raved about. I changed the Elephant review a bit the night before it ran to reflect my ever building enthusiasm. Also, that Vic Thrill album that I've been pushing -- I didn't rave enough about that.

By the way, seems like nobody has taken me up on my advice to buy that album, CE-5, even though I SPECIFICALLY INSTRUCTED YOU TO DO SO.

Shaw, Washington, D.C.: So I was pretty impressed by the Yeah Yeah Yeahs at the 9:30 on Sunday night. From their recordings, I'd expected more of a rough and ready Seattle-style lack of polish, but the band was TIGHT.

Still, my friend and I wondered if Karen O was out of control, or if the strung out act is just part of her shtick. I mean, there were moments I was worried if she'd make it through the set, but then she'd come back with so much control and power. She really knocked my socks off.

David Segal: I can't tell you how bummed I am to have missed that. Plus the Kills! Did you see them? If so, how were they?

Del Ray, Alexandria, Va.: Here's a 9:30 Club etiquette question for you. I was at the (great) Joe Jackson show on Monday. Got there a few minutes later than I wanted and went to stand on the rail on the side of the club in the upstairs. This meant that I was blocking some of the people that were sitting on the risers. I maintain that it's a club, so you can stand wherever you want. For the record, I'm REALLY short. Thoughts? Or, should I ask Carolyn?

David Segal: Leaning against the rail is perfectly acceptable behavior. In the 9:30 Club, where there are more rude fans than there are mixed drinks, it's dainty of you to even wonder. Too many talkers in that club. If you go to see a band, people, have the decency to shut the hell up while they play. Even if you're there for a smoke and a Amstel, others are there to listen. I think they should start shows with a SHUT UP plea, the way they do with movies. No, we don't need reverential silence. But extraneous blabbing, we don't need that either.

Texas: Was the young comedian Jackie Mason, you know, the young Jewish comedian Ed Sullivan ordered off the stage because he thumbed his nose at the audience? Also, don'tcha love how Sullivan pronunciates Beatles. "Ladeees and gentlemen, the beet-ulls"!

David Segal: Not Jackie.

Sullivan is a really weird looking dude, and very uncomfortable with himself. Awkward. Nixonian. In fact, I'm sure that a lot of Americans were comfortable with Nixon because they'd been entertained for so long by a guy who could have been Nixon's creepier brother.

Washington, D.C.: The comic was Soupy Sales. My main memory of him was in a PSA in the late 60's/early 70's as a drug dealer on a children's playground trying to push his stuff while some little kid told of all the bad things each drug would do. Kind of creepy, actually.

David Segal: Soupy is right. I'd really like to call the guy and ask him about that experience. It looked just painful. He's running up the aisles of the theater and trying to get these kids to sing "Do the Mouse" with him, a dance that seemed to entail flapping your hands by your ears. After the Beatles were done singing "I'm Down," I doubt a kid in that room, or elsewhere in the U.S. ever did the mouse again.

Washington D.C.: Hello David: Can you clarify what the music on the Lucinda Williams album actually sounds like? You used the words "overcast" and "roadhouse," but that leaves much open to interpretation. The NYT's review on Sunday was similarly vague. On the other hand, I believe it was Time magazine that called it a "rock record". So, does it rock? Are there loud guitars? Are the songs mid-tempo? All ballads? I can handle depressing lyrics if they're presented in a rock'n'roll setting, but if it's all slit-your-wrist ballads I'm not going to be forking over my $18. (And no, I don't download commercially available music.) Thanks.

David Segal: It does not rock. It's very slow and quiet and mumbly. It shuffles at the pace of a snail for the most part. Torch songish. There really isn't a single rocker in the lot.

Tenleytown, Washington, D.C.: I appreciated your review about the Lucinda Williams quandary. She used to balance the wistful, sad and heartbreak much better, and justified the exemplary singer/songwriter tag. Her second original album is particularly fine. "Change the Locks" is a profound song about the effects of domestic violence -- I have advised clients (I'm a divorce lawyer) to listen to it. She can do amazing, powerful things in concert -- at a folk festival several years ago at Meriweather Post, her short set was incendiary -- best of the program. Yet the last time I saw her (on the Essence tour just before it was released), it was way too mopey until the end when the guitars came unleashed. The version of Essence was turbocharged and left people screaming and howling at its end. In other words, it provided a release from the turmoil which preceded it -- sounds like the new CD has no release at all. Very sad.

David Segal: I'm telling you, we've been coddling this woman. She needs a latte or a wake up call, or something. The lousy thing is that once again, a lot of critics are saying it's her best album. Every album is her best album. She can't release an album that isn't her best ever. Vanity Fair called it the "album of her career," or some nonsense. I know, nobody goes to VF for the music reviews, but VF isn't alone. Thing is, Williams is welcome to her misery. She just has to find a way to capture it in songs that compel.

Washington, D.C.: David, I have to say that I disagree strongly with your Linkin Park review. I really like the album. I think that there is growth there, the songs are tighter, and the musicianship is better. I really don't understand your beef about them "not growing". What exactly are you looking for? For them to have gone from angst-filled to angst-free in two years? I don't know man, it seems to me that you view their musical style/lyrics, etc., as an immature phase that they'll grow out of. Seems biased to me. But then again, there's always been critical bias against metal/hard rock groups. Hell, Metallica had to be around for 15 years before the critics came around a little. btw, I'm 32 not 16.

David Segal: I just don't hear a lick of difference between the first album and Meteora. Feel free to enlighten me, of course. It seems that the band made a pretty conscious decision not to veer far from the debut album's formula. In the liner notes to Meteora it says that there were ideas that were nearly dismissed because they stretched the recipe too much, but that they were kept in when the band found ways to make them sound like the good old Linkin Park.

I understand why. When something works, you stick with it, as that coffee lady said. But the hallmark of every great band is restlessness. They're incapable of standing still.

You're right about Metallica. The critics dismissed Zep too, which was an idiotic thing to do. But I'll bet you a fiver that LPark won't be around in 15 years. We'll put the money in escrow and it'll be worth at least $6.56 in a decade and a half.

Arlington, Va.: David: Have you heard anything about whether Springsteen will play Fed-Ex on the 2nd leg of his U.S. tour?

David Segal: He's definately coming to the area in, I believe, October. He's considering Fed Ex. I think that's a LOUSY idea. The Stone's show there was borderline disastrous for many fans, who found themselves stuck in traffic for hours and got to the place late. I'd prefer the guy play RFK but I'm not sure that's even under consideration.

Am I alone in this? Does Fed-Ex suck or what?

Washington, D.C.: Was it Soupy Sales?

And props to you for having plugged Little Steven's show even though it partially conflicts with your own. Where else can you hear "Journey to the Center of Your Mind" following by the 'Stripes' "Jumble Jumble?"

David Segal: Yes, again, it was Soupy Sales.

And yes, the greatest show on radio, Little Steven's Underground Garage, plays on 96.7 while we're gabbing like MO-rons on the other station. What can I say? If I were you ... well, I will say that Little Steven's shows are archived online and can be listened to whenever you like.

Cher, the Ultimate Diva: Cher, like Striesand, was truly a model for the rich, spoiled pop diva. I've talked to younger pop fans who saw VH-1's Divas special. They clearly don't understand that "diva" has negative as well as positive connotations. The word can imply a certain sheltered spoiledness, as in "Dammit, I specifically asked the crew to buy Aquafina for after the concert, not Dasani! I want them fired NOW!!"

David Segal: I've been reading about Motown lately and I'm thinking that Diana Ross might be the ultimate diva. Or rather, I think it'd be hard to outdiva Diana. She was really truly awful. Her staff was for a long time instructed not to look her directly in the eye! Now that's good!

Dupont Circle, Washington, D.C.: Do you have any "guilty pleasures" when it comes to music? Groups or albums that you know are not very talented but you still really enjoy listening to?

David Segal: Plenty. ELO and Billy Joel come to mind. But there are many others. I'm so ashamed!

Arlington, Va.: Re: Fed-Ex for concerts. I HATE outdoor stadium shows. I wish Springsteen would come back to MCI. But I don't think I get to decide.

David Segal: I'm with you. Outdoor shows stink. I've never ever seen one that stuck with me for more than a day or two. There just isn't a band on the planet that is capable of filling a room that large that doesn't have a roof. Not even the Boss. It's really a bad idea. Rock needs to be intimate. The best shows are always the ones where you can get up close and really ruin your ears.

Springfield, Va.: Do you think that the decline in concert attendance can be attributed to traffic congestion? I live and work in Northern Virginia and for a weeknight show there is no way I can get home, change, and then make it in time to Wolftrap or Nissan Pavillion. Forget about the Merriweather Post Pavillion.

David Segal: I'm certain that people balk at going to shows at Nissan because of traffic. And it's just so damn far away. Wolftrap is no picnic either.

Olney, Md.: David, weighing in on the Joe Jackson show -- it was great to see the old band together again. Following up on the rude talkers at the 9:30 - another thing that bugs me are the people who feel the need to "act out" each song, as if they're freakin' mimes! You know the type -- clutching their chest, pointing, gesturing, etc. ARGHHH! And they're always in your line of sight as you attempt to see the performer! We must banish them as well!

David Segal: Yes, I know them well.

I've got to write a piece about concert jackasses. There are so many different types. I've seen 'em all. How about the jackass who spends all night screaming for a song that the band will never play. I love that nitwit. One attended the Steve Earle show and kept screaming "Jackalope Eyes," or whatever that song is -- he was loaded and barely coherent -- until Earle began mocking him. Then Mr. Jackalope started screaming a song or two later.

Washington, D.C.: Oh, now wait just a minute. Billy Joel a guilty pleasure? The man is only one of the greatest pop writers of our time!

David Segal: Well, I'm not sure I'd go that far. But I like him. Remember an album of his called The Bridge? I swear there's some fine material on that album.

I'm so ashamed! Help me!

Washington, D.C.: You may be right about Linkin Park (I haven't heard the new album, nor to my knowledge, the first), but your review is the only negative one I've seen. In fact, every other review I've read was close to rave. What gives?

David Segal: Really?

I have no idea.

Well, I have one idea. I think that most publications are writing for the kids, which is to say they write with the idea in mind that the kids are reading. And the kids are going to love this album. Why not? It's just the first album all over again. And I think if you write for the kids, you really can't slam the band too much because you risk being tagged as a fogey who doesn't get it. A mag like Rolling Stone lives in fear of that, of seeming out of touch. I can't blame them. But at the Post, I don't write for kids and I don't appraise an album wondering whether my readers are going to love this thing and accuse me of geezerdom.

Washington, D.C.: Re: Divas

That's "Miss Ross" to you, pal!

David Segal: True.

Rocking lucinda: Bleeding Fingers and Atonement are both high up on the Lucinda rock meter. Maybe you need to give the album another listen or two?

David Segal: Atonement does rock a bit, you're right. I should have mentioned that as an exception. I think it's also quite a lousy tune. It's basically a gospel number, set to a strip tease rock beat. And it's a very heavy slam against money-loving preachers. A pretty fat and easy target.

Fairfax, Va.: How do you feel about "tribute" bands? Saw the Bootleg Beatles last night and they were terrific! Looked and sounded as close to the real thing as you can possibly get.

David Segal: I did a long piece about tribute bands a while ago. Send me an e-mail at segald@washpost.com and I'll send you the story. It featured a Doors tribute band.

Washington, D.C.: "Local favorites" Last Train Home played the Birchmere Saturday night, and your review barely mentioned them, instead focusing on opening act the Gourds. The Gourds, in fact, were the only great band in the house that night, and their reception was suitably very warm, LTH's very lukewarm. Even the LTH frontman couldn't stop mentioning the Gourds, and their great set seemed to hang over LTH's mediocre, soulless set. Can you explain why LTH wasn't the opening act and the Gourds the headliners, which would have been much less painful for everybody involved?

washingtonpost.com: Pssst... not by David: Pop Music, (Post, April 7)

David Segal: LTH is a local band -- the Post's former Weekend columnist Eric Brace is lead singer -- and the band is rightly beloved in this town. You're the first person to say anything negative about their live show. I think they're quite excellent and there's a great vibe whenever they play, a neighborhood vibe, a bunch of people who know each other, brought together by these terrific musicians.

Washington, D.C.: Plug the new Jayhawks album! Plug the new Jayhawks album!

David Segal: The new Jayhawk's album is in!

Concert Jackasses: At Iota last week for Bobby Bare Jr. and Damnwells show, one DRUNK fool was trying hard to ruin the show for all of us. He kept trying to talk to the band between songs, right up front. It was so distracting for everyone, mostly the performers.
BTW - Bobby Bare Jr. was awesome.

David Segal: That's annoying. Dude did that at a Nick Lowe show at the Birch last year. Walked right up to Lowe with a sign in his hands and started talking to him. Lowe was just starting his encore, "Peace Love and Understanding," and he stopped to figure out what this idiot wanted.

People in the crowd almost dismembered this ninny, by the way.

Guilty Pleasures: I'm with you on Billy ... I keep those CDs in a special stash away from friends' prying eyes. And James Taylor, too. Early Elton John resides there for me as well ... but not so guilt-ily.

As for L. Williams, I'm with you. The press has to keep it in check ... quit bandwagon deifying, and maybe we'll get a good latter-day album out of her.

David Segal: I like Elton John, too. He and BJoel put on a great show last year.

Washington, D.C.: Nice gig you got there, Dave.

So whaddya think of this slew of bands from Scandanavia? I thought it was just another fad that seemed more about the clothes and haircuts than the music, but the more I hear the more I like. I just listened to the flaming sideburns and couldn't resist their energy.

What's the common denominator with these bands?

David Segal: Back to basics raw-i-tude.

Washington, D.C.: Hi Dave,

This is more related to your job than it is to music. I was wondering how a critic goes about getting his foot in the door. In other words, what's the best way to get work writing about music, books, or whatever and getting paid for it?

Thanks a lot,

Joe

David Segal: My path here was unconventional, since it ran through the Post's Business section, where I wrote for five years.

Some generic advice: Write for anyone who'll publish you. Write constantly. Badger editors politely. Read everyhing you can get your hands on. Find your own voice. Good verbs are you buddy. Never use the phrase "Next Big Thing," under any circumstance. Don't use the word "shimmering" either.

That's a start, I guess.

Ashburn, Va.: Ed Sullivan Show: Was it Marty Brill? That answer alone shows I'm an old(er) geezer (45) but I love this ongoing discussion. Totally agree about Lucinda W. Didn't get Essence because of the constant drone, or Gillian Welch's last record, either, for the same reason.

Have you ever heard a guy named Randall Bramblett? Excellent singer/songwriter from Georgia. Sort of in the Bonnie Raitt/John Hiatt vein. No More Mr. Lucky is his last album and it's great.

David Segal: I'll check it out.

Lucindaville: David sez: "I don't think Lucinda is America's greatest songwriter. She might not be in my top ten, actually."

This of course begs the question who would qualify for this honor. Do you have a quick list handy?

(Of course, the entire concept of ranking artists is somewhat silly - I'm just thrilled that Lucinda is creating amazing and very moving art.)

David Segal: Well, Lou Reed is up there. So is Robert Pollard of Guided By Voices. So is Carole King. Holland-Dozier-Holland have more amazing songs than you can fathom. As does Smokey Robinson. Paul Simon. Chuck Berry. Leiber and Stoller wrote many of Elvis' best.

That's a start.

Cher, the moment I met you I swear ... : I was compelled to watch that, uh, spectacle for a few minutes because of Tom Shales' hilarious review and let me tell you ... her cover of 'Where the Streets Have No Name' really put U2 in its place. Yessir, she can't sing; she can't write songs; and she can't even dance. But damn she can change outfits and wigs with the best of them.

David Segal: Hee heee!

Champagne Tastes, Malt Liquor Budget: David,

If you had $15 to spend on an album this week, which would you buy? Options are:

The Kills
Yeah Yeah Yeahs
De Stijl (I own Elephant, WBC, and self-titled)
Vic Thrill
Vic ChesnuTT

Or another "must have" nomination of your choosing. I love music and I keep hearing these suggestions, but my wallet can't keep up! By the time I get all of this music, I'll be behind on the next 5 suggestions.

Please advise.

David Segal: Well, I'd need to know a bit about your tastes. YYYs album isn't out yet. Maybe you can save up for that, in the course of the next two weeks.

DeStilj is can't miss. If you like Elephant, you'll love it.

I like the Kills though that band and Vic Thrill are more of a roll of the dice. If you like 'em, they'll kill you.

Re: The Gourds: Dude, you're a tool. That wasn't anywhere close to a lukewarm reception for Last Train Home. Yeah, I'm biased, but it's just a different band.

I'd never heard the Gourds before, but I pretty much fell in love with them about three notes into the first song. And they're hilarious.

David Segal: Well, you ought to be glad that our reviewer focused on the Gourds, rather than Last Train Home. What exactly are you complaining about?

Yours,

A Tool.

Vienna, Va.: Do you know of a Web site where I can visit to find a CD that is "out of stock" on amazon.com? The one I am tyring to find is an import from the UK.

David Segal: I would just google the album name along with the word "for sale." That usually does the trick.

Ok, folks. I'm done for now.

I had a very pleasant time. I'm fond of each and every one of you, even the guy who called me a tool. No, especially the guy who called me a tool.

Till next time,

Rock on with your bad self

David

washingtonpost.com:

That wraps up today's show. Thanks to everyone who joined the discussion.