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Pop Talk
With David Segal
Washington Post Music Critic
Wednesday, May 21, 2003; Noon ET

For a few years, he played guitar and sang in a deeply terrible cover band, the Bremers. The highlight of the group's show was a stalker version of "Leavin' on a Jet Plane," which was retitled "You're NOT Leavin' on a Jet Plane." He's been at The Post for going on eight years, first as a Book World editor, then a Business section reporter and finally as pop music critic. He enjoys the work and would like to point out that he is writing his bio, even though it's written in the third person, like someone else wrote it. Segal is doing that so he appears more important than he is, which is hilarious when you think about it!

The transcript follows.

Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.

David Segal: Party People,

I was in Liverpool and London last week, retracing the steps of the Beatles (Abbey Road, studio 2, one of the many highlights) and stalking Pete Best, the fired first drummer of the band. Nice guy. Still playing. In fact, some friends and I saw the Pete Best Band perform in a calvalcade-style show on Friday night, along with a bunch of other Merseybeat bands from the early 60s and a some "Motown" acts of the same era. I slap quotes around that label's name because it's unclear to me if anyone on the bill actually sang for Motown. It didn't look likely from the poster outside the theater, and I confess we skipped out before the Detroit part of the bill began.

So, any questions about Liverpool, bring 'em on. Or whatever else is on your mind. Lots of shows coming up. Diamond Dave Lee Roth plays the 9:30 Club on Tuesday and you just know that'll be memorable.

How about some trivia. I learned the answer to this one on the Magical Mystery Tour bus in L'pool, a very tacky and altogether too brief trip around the leading Beatles-related sites of the city. Our tour guide was more stand up comedian than anything else but he posed this one to the group: What was the last song that the Beatles played on their last tour, and where did they play it? (We're not counting the impromptu show on the top of the Apple building, by the way.)

First right answer gets a copy of 3-song CD by Steadman, a Britpop band whose disc comes with a handwritten rave by none other than Paul McCartney. Plus whatever else I've got handy. (Anyone want the soundtrack to the In-Laws movie?)

Let's go...

Now to your questions.

Centreville, Va.: Hello David,

Love the chats. I'm trying to find some small clubs in the Northern Virginia, Washington, D.C., Maryland area that support local up-and-coming rock bands in something other than "Battle of the Bands." Wonder if you could help in naming some venues that are receptive to a band that can bring probably less than 100 fans. I'm talking specifically about a high school band in West Fairfax County. Thanks for your help.

David Segal: The good old Grog and Tankard is your best bet. Back when I had an incredibly crappy cover band, we were booked at the Grog whenever we liked, entirely because we could always muster a good 30 to 40 bodies. All those bodies were bitterly disappointed by the end of our set and forced to utter banalities like "Great song selection!" But at the Grog you can play the kazoo for an hour and they don't care. Long as you bring in some poor suckers who'll hand over the cover charge, you're in.

The Grog is Glover Park, on Wisconsin Ave. Bonus: they list your name in the upcoming events ad they run in the City Paper. It's like you're a real band!

Band Logos: When I saw the ad for the Journey, REO Speedwagon and Styx revival tour, I was reminded of the days when virtually all arena rock bands had logos. Is this particular art form dead?

David Segal: Great question. When I saw Motorhead the other night, there was that huge Satanic logo of their looming over the stage.

Trying to think if I've seen logos like that recently...

Yes, Supergrass has one. Oddly, it's of three guys because the band was once a trio. Supergrass is these days a quartet, or at least was when it played 9:30. So maybe that logo needs an update.

Can't think of any others. Most bands tend to switch from album to album, rather than stick with one image.

Anyone I'm missing, people?

Washington, D.C.: David, love the chat. I had to contribute an obnoxious concert-goer experience I had recently. I went to see a favorite at a small, local club and after sitting through a thoroughly horrible opener, I was ready to hear the music I came to hear. The awful opener, a local with a few friends who had come out to see him, proceeded to talk and laugh over the headliner. This proceeded throughout the show. It was compounded by the fact that it was an intimate setting with a small crowd -- and it was obvious who was making all the racket. I was forced to listen to the guy not once, but continuously! I've never seen such overt rudeness.

David Segal: Pretty amazing. You wonder, Where is a tazer when you need it?

Side note to this ongoing thread: I recently bought a bunch of Rolling Stone mags on eBay, circa 1974. There's a piece in there, a first person piece, by a guy who considers heckling an art form. His thing was to shout "Whipping Post!" the Allman Bros classic, at every concert he attended. (I suppose that before "Freebird!" became the cliche request that it now is, "Whipping Post!" was the thing.) The art of it, according to this yobbo, was figuring out the exact right moment to shout. He really thought of it as a science. And he enjoyed watching bands try to deal with his catcall.

Point, I guess, is that concert jackasses have been around for a very long time.

Lexington Park, Md.: From what I recall, Korn has kept the same basic logo. It looks like it was slowly written with a felt tip pen with that stupid backwards R.

David Segal: I think you're right about that. Good one.

Waynesboro, Va.: It was "Long Tall Sally" at Candlestick Park.

David Segal: Right on, brotha.

I forgot to mention that you've got to send me your e-mail to claim your prize. I'm at segald@washpost.com

Kind of funny that the Beatles ended on a cover song, isn't it?

Washington, D.C.: Dave:

Last song was Long Tall Sally played at Candlestick park in 1966 -- last Beatles show.

What do you know about X, back together at 9:30 Club next month. I'm Going!

David Segal: You're right, too.

I'll be at the X show, too. I'm guessing it'll be strong because that's just a great band. I remember seeing them back in their early 80s heyday and it was one of those shows that's stored in the hard drive for eternity. Billy Zoom had this grin on his face when he played that was really entertaining -- like he'd planted a bomb in the place and planned on splitting right before the thing went off. Felt like a punk rock sock hop.

Don't miss it.

Washington, D.C.: Howdy David:
Have you any clue what has happened to Sly Stone? Hasn't been seen or heard from in years. Might make a fascinating story ... sort of a "Desperately Seeking Sly." Go for it, dude!

David Segal: Vibe tried that one a few months ago and if I heard correctly, the mag was unable to locate the dude. An editor asked me recently if I wanted to start my own search. I'd have to say no. The guy clearly wants nothing to do with the public, or with fame or his past, at least for now. So why bother him? Just to stick a mini-cassette player at him and say, What you been up to, Sly? I don't know. I'd feel kind of bad about blowing his cover. He's got a right to live in peace if that's what he wants.

I also have no doubt that there'll be a comeback album soon enough.

Washington, D.C.: Van Halen never changed their logo!

David Segal: Yeah!

Washington, D.C.: Dave, you're up against Sister Sledge! Maybe you should have a rain delay or something.

David Segal: Sister Sledge? Ha!

I'll whup their butts! Bring it on, Sistas!!!!

Washington, D.C.: What kind of wanker flies 4,000 miles to listen to Pete Best? I hear he's not even the drummer in his own band!!

David Segal: I'd guess that the kind of wanker who'd fly 4,000 miles to see Pete Best is the kind of wanker who'd ask a question like: What kind of wanker would fly 4,000 miles to see Pete Best?

Yes, it's true, by the way. Pete actually shares drum duties with his half-brother, Roag. There are two drummers in the Pete Best band. More on that topic in a major newspaper soon.

Alexandria, Va.: Yo Dave -
How come you guys didn't review the Stephen Malkmus (and the Jicks) show at the 9:30 Club last week?

David Segal: We reviewed the album. How was the show?

Washington, D.C.: Hey Dave,

I like Billy Corrigan's new band. Does that make me lame?

David Segal: Not to me.

Baltimore, Md.: I recently discovered the Kinks' albums from the late '60s (e.g., Face to Face, Village Green, Arthur, Something Else) and can't believe I didn't know about them earlier (I'm 28). I've been utterly blown away by these records -- they still sound fresh and original 35 years later. I think I even like them better than the Beatles of that period. Why don't the Kinks get more Kredit?

David Segal: A great question.

Let me give you a long answer, written not by me, but by freelancer and Kinks lover, Eli Attie. He put it better than I ever could:

Back in the summer of 1966, a British music magazine played a decidedly
cruel joke on Kinks leader Ray Davies, asking him to review "Revolver,"
the latest album by his vastly more successful colleagues, the Beatles.
Davies' assessment was unsparing, to say the least. He derided "Yellow
Submarine" as "a load of rubbish." He theorized that "Eleanor Rigby" was
an attempt "to please music teachers in primary schools." He dismissed
"Love You To" as "the sort of song I was doing two years ago." "But I
don't want to be harsh," Davies concluded. "The balance and recording
technique are as good as ever."


Davies' salty words about one of the crowning achievements of '60s
rock were a bit off-base. But in retrospect, they're more than a little
revealing about the Kinks' own place in the rock canon, and their uneasy
relationship with rock-and-roll itself.

Aside from a few chart hits in the mid-'60s and a brief revival as
a stadium act in the early '80s, the Kinks were generally ignored by the
record-buying masses. Overshadowed by the Beatles, the Stones and the
Who; banned by the American Musicians' Union from touring America for
most of the '60s (for unspecified "misbehavior"); plagiarized by second-
and third-generation disciples such as the Jam and Blur -- the Kinks
have plenty of reasons for bitterness. But Sub Pop's new tribute
collection, "Give the People What We Want," intended to celebrate the
boys from Muswell Hill, adds a new wrinkle to the band's troubled
legacy, and perhaps even an insight into why it never truly caught fire:
Most Kinks songs fall flat unless they're played by the Kinks.

To hear such alt-rock luminaries as Mudhoney, the Posies' Jon Auer,
and the Screaming Trees' Mark Lanegan stumble through their favorite
Kinks tunes is to realize how peculiar Davies' outfit really was. With
its odd blend of rough-hewn R&B, angst-ridden folk-rock, and campy
music-hall histrionics, the band had a charm that isn't easily
transferable. At his best, Davies is less a singer than a character
actor -- likely to change dialects, feign hysteria and move from parody
to earnest protestation in a single verse. Hearing even the greatest
alternative-rock bands barrel through the same chord changes isn't much
of a substitute.

Unfortunately, the Kinks' stubborn originality was also their
commercial undoing. While the British invasion was exporting exuberance
and utopianism, the Kinks were obsessed with societal decay and decline.
The same year "Pinball Wizard" captured the explosion of youth
consciousness, the Kinks' album "Arthur" examined one middle-aged man
whose son has decided to move to Australia. And in the 1970s, after the
cross-dressing anthem "Lola" brought the band to the brink of real
stardom, they eschewed hit singles and instead released a string of
concept albums about urban sprawl. Not exactly the 'N Sync of their day.

The enduring genius of the Kinks is that, even as they skirted
their times, they influenced them deeply. It can be argued that they
invented the power chord, with gut-rock classics such as "You Really Got
Me" and "Till the End of the Day" -- a sound the Who pirated for the
song "I Can't Explain" (even hiring Kinks producer Shel Talmy to twirl
the knobs, and employing Kinks session guitarist Jimmy Page). Ray's
brother and band mate Dave Davies was a pioneer of guitar distortion,
which he achieved by slashing the speaker of his tiny El Pico amplifier
with a razor blade. And the vicious rivalry between the Davies brothers
-- estranged to the point that one fan Web site recently "reported" that
they'd had dinner together -- set the standard for generations of
intra-band ill will, right down to Oasis's brawling Gallagher boys.

Roots rock and acoustic blues? Been there. Souped-up glam-rock with
two-minute guitar solos? Done that. Stripped-down calypso, and pulsing
white reggae? The Kinks did it all -- but in the wrong order, usually
long before or long after it was fashionable.

This is the reason the Kinks are so hard to cover, and the reason
they may forever be denied the credit they deserve. Just as Ray Davies
was perennially playing roles in his songs, the Kinks established
themselves as wry commentators on the rock revolution, not full-fledged
participants like Hendrix or the Who. The Kinks looked back to bossa
nova and big-band music just as rock-and-roll became a self-serious
movement. They wrote song after song about the humiliations of the
record industry exactly when rock stardom became every teenager's dream.
As even a casual listen to "Village Green Preservation Society" or
"Something Else" will prove, Ray Davies was fully capable of writing
blockbuster hits. But unlike the Beatles, he was too busy studying his
audience to please them.

"They'll give you mediocre reviews and put you in the underground
for a while," Davies sang in 1972, in one of countless odes to his
commercial malaise. "But look a little on the sunny side." As Davies may
have learned when he reviewed "Revolver," the rock world, as much as any
other, needs its critics. But that doesn't mean they'll be invited to
the party.

Georgetown, Washington, D.C.: So American Idol. Looks like that big fat guy is going to win. Any chance of him actually selling CDs? And Kelly Clarkson ... how over is she?

David Segal: This is a terrible confession to many of you, I'm sure. But I've never seen American Idol. Well, I watched about 10 minutes of the last season, and I went to the show at MCI Center last year. But I've missed everything this year. It just seems godawful to me and by the time they winnow the crowd to a few people, even Simon the Rude is pretending that these singers have talent. Ain't my cupper.

Re: Last Song: Rumor has it that just before John Lennon left the stage at the end of the Candlestick Park show, he strummed the familiar riff from "In My Life". Supposedly a bootleg exist, but I've never heard it.

David Segal: Interesting.

Bonus trivia: What other great band played their last concert in San Fran?

Kensington, Md.: I saw the Libertines on Letterman a few weeks ago, and they were fab. But your discussion about the end of logos reminded me of another question: What's the last good band to wear uniforms? The Libertines' redcoats were absolutely gear! I hope the uniform shtick comes back. Keep up the good work!

David Segal: Yes, those coats are excellent. I like that the drummer drapes his on the front of his kit.

Other bands with uniforms? Well the Polyphonic Spree, which is about 30 or so members strong, all wear white frocks, like they're in some church choir. The White Stripes are always photographed and always perform in red and white clothing. 50 Cent and his entourage all perform in Kevlar vests, which is a uniform of sorts and is certainly a shtick. (If it was really about safety, why did 50 remove his halfway through the D.C. show?)

Interpol all wear these dark, expensive Dolce & Gawhateveryoucallit suits, with ties.

Who am I forgetting?

Springfield, Va.: What other great band played their last concert in San Fran?

The Sex Pistols

David Segal: Yeah, dawg.

Bonus again: What did Johnny Rotten famously say at the end of that show?

Somewhere, USA: I hear that adorable Freedy Johnston has an album of great cover tunes. Is it only available at his concerts?

P.S. Diana and Elvis? Doesn't she remember what happened to Edie Brickell?

David Segal: I would love an album of Freedy covers. He has great taste in other people's songs. I remember him doing a Burt Bacharach number at show and it slayed.

Alexandria, Va.: I have been listing to the Flatlanders CD and love it! I noticed that one of the band members, Jimmy Dale Gilmore, will be at the Birchmere in July. Do you know if his show concentrates on the Flatlanders or is it more of his solo songs, which I am unfamilar with?

David Segal: Don't know what he's doing this time around. But if you like the Flatlanders, go buy some of Gilmore's albums. "One Endless Night" is just a stunner. Released in 2000.

Arlington, Va.: Not really a "logo," but Blur always has their name in that certain typeface, so more like the AC/DC logo than a picture. By the way, what did you think of their new album? I didn't think it was nearly as electronica as it was billed, and except for a few songs, I think there's some great stuff on there.

David Segal: I found myself nodding furiously along with our review of album by Arion Berger. I think it's pretty middling, aside from that excellent "Crazy Beat" tune early in the line up. Rest seems daring but not very enjoyable to me.

And yes, plenty of fonts remain the same for bands.

To the producer: Last week, there was a session about a book on the greatest country songs of all time. I missed it and can't find the link in any of the archives. Can you post?
Thanks.

washingtonpost.com: Transcript: The 500 Best Country Songs Ever (washingtonpost.com, May 13)

David Segal: there you go.

Southside, Va.: Daaaaaaaave - The latest on my list of defunct bands I just now, in my late 30s, am discovering: The Replacements. What do you think? And could you rank the albums so I can know what to buy next? Thanks, bro.

David Segal: Great band. I'm a HUGE fan of "Let it Be," perhaps the most cheekily named album in history. Legend has it that when they were sitting around trying to figure out what to call the thing, one of the Replacements piped up with "Well, we can't call it Let it Be." And that was it.

I also really like "All Shook Down," their debut. "Tim" has "Waitress in the Sky," which is an excellent tune. They mellowed quite a bit as they went on. I don't listen much to their later stuff.

Alexandria, Va.: Am I too late to answer the trivia? If not, Candlestick Park in San Francisco and the last song was "Long Tall Sally". Correct?

David Segal: You're right! You ARE too late!

For the KINKS Fan.: These are MUST haves:
Muswell Hillbillies
Arthur
Lola vs. Powerman.

Awesome how they hold up over time with lyrics that'll make you laugh and cry. brilliant!

David Segal: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Washington, D.C.: I'm guessing Johnny Rotten said something like
"Do you ever feel like you've just been cheated?".

David Segal: Damn right he did. Nicely done.

Washington, D.C.: Paraphrase of Rotten's Comment:

Don't you all feel cheated? (Referencing San Fran as the birthplace of the hippie/peace movement)

David Segal: You can take a bow, too.

Fairfax County, Va.: "Ever felt like you've been cheated?" The Pistols last show was in SF.

David Segal: And I think you were actually first with the right answer, so you take a double bow.

Nashville, Tenn.: Also, Weezer has that Winged "W"
=W=

David Segal: Good call.

Washington, D.C.: Take any good pictures in Liverpool, Dave?

David Segal: Well, I snapped a whole bunch. None of them are very good. Or wouldn't interest anyone other than me and my pals. One highlight: we did the jackass walk across the zebra cross walk at Abbey Road, which I guess everyone who ever visits the place does. A couple pals took off their shoes. One offered to take off his pants. (Rutles did that on their mock version of the cover.) Funny thing is that Abbey Road -- the road, not the studio -- is a pretty busy place, so you really need to move fast and pray hard. Lots of traffic and a bunch of drivers who are only too accustomed to seeing morons like us strolling across the street and being photographed. One guy kindly screamed "The Beatles suck!" as he road by.

Washington, D.C.: Same logos:

Def Leppard - that jagged 80's "lightning" style lettering.
Boston - what IS that anyway? It's like a blob.
Chicago - every single album, that cursive script.
Aerosmith - the wings.

And, of course:

KISS - the familiar lettering.

David Segal: Excellent.

The Mats: Um, Dave, "All Shook Down" was their last album, not their debut (is there a corresponding term?). Not sure if you meant "Tim" was their debut, not sure how you tabulate those things since Hootenanny, Sorry Ma, and other stuff was recorded before then, but weren't big releases.

David Segal: Ooops. The Replacements debut was in fact Sorry Ma, Forgot to Take Out the Trash. It's really great. "All Shook" is indeed their swan song and not an album I'm crazy about.

Thank you, the Mats.

Silver Spring, Md.: Black Flag has a logo.

David Segal: Yup

Washington, D.C.: Thinking about trying to relive the memorable, but not-so-glory days of my high schools years by going to see the Journey-Styx-REO Speedwagon tour this summer. But having seen Steve Perry in his prime, will I be disappointed by his replacement in Journey? I've heard he sounds almost identical, but I'm worried that someone other than Steve singing "Faithfully" might not be so memorable?

David Segal: Hell if I know. He does sound a lot of like the original. But you've got to attend a show like the J-S-Reo night with a sense of ironic distance. I mean, you're there to exhume the dead, really, so get ready for something as tacky as a seance.

Long Beach, Calif.: If you get a chance, talk to D.J. Bonebreak of "X" about his band,
"The Bonebreak Syncopators"
D.J. plays vibes, with a standup bass, drums guitar and lap steel guitar. It sounds like a slightly western bachelor pad lounge band with interesting flourishes and outrageous leads by T.K. Smith on guitar, and J.W. Wakefield on lap steel. Ask him for a CD!

David Segal: DJ Bonebreak steals the show in an X documentary I saw last year on video. (Can't recall the title.) It's not that great a film, but it does show DJ doing four different beats, using both hands and both feet, in his kitchen. It's kind of amazing. He plays one beat, then adds another and another. Pretty wild. Makes me bummed that those early X albums really made DJs drums sound wimpy. He's superb.

Tyson's Corner, Va.: The Kinks at Constitution Hall was my first concert, back in '83. A great show, even though by the time we bought tickets, all that was left were the "partially obstructed" seats in the upper right of the auditorium, second to the last row. But those were great seats. We could easily see over the stack of amps.

The problem was the three guys in the last row, the one behind us. Every time we stood up -- and you stand through most of a show when it's your first concert, and you love the band -- the guys behind us would tap us on the back and tell us to sit down because they couldn't see. I rebelled and stood for a time, but my timid streak eventually got the better of me, and I sat for part of the show -- even though I couldn't see over the guys in front of -me-!

Ah, memories.

David Segal: Good one.

Jersey City, N.J.: What's a girl gotta do to get a little love around here?

David Segal: Maybe you ought to send that one to Ms. Hax, our love advice columnist.

Springfield, Va.: Don't forget the DK logo!

David Segal: The DK logo! One of the more enduring underground brand images out there. I've seen it spray painted in small towns in Europe and on t-shirts far and wide.

Thanks for the Memories ... : "You ain't nothin' but a waitress in the sky ... "

Played it for my friend when she became a "flight attendant."

She was not amused.

Tee hee!

David Segal: Yes, it's a great slap at flight attendants.

Kinks: That was a great article. Would the Kinks be your nominee for Greatest Band That Became Huge Influence But Never Achieved Stardom?

David Segal: I'd put the Pixies in that list. Maybe Big Star, too. But Velvet Underground must take the title. Never really sold many units but every other band cites them as a heavy heavy influence.

Nowhere, Man: Bands in uniforms -- Of course, David Lee Roth typically wore his assless chaps. It's a uniform, of sorts.

David Segal: Good Lord. You think DLR is going to wear assless chaps on Tuesday? (Ed. -- can we post "assless" on this site?)

Other Bands in Uniforms: Make-Up
Nation of Ulysses
The Hives
The International Noise Conspiracy
Clinic
Man or Astro-man?
The Godfathers

David Segal: Forgot about the Hives. They have great uniforms!

Brooklyn, baby, Brooklyn: Hey Dave --

I checked out the YYYs on your (and the VVoice's) strong recommendations. Dig the Stripes a whole lot, was super intrigued by what I was hearing about the YYYs and, well, sorry to say I find their LP BOOOOOORING and not as nearly as sexy as the Stripes (I'm a straight boy, incidentally.) My $.02. Sorry.

David Segal: How can you find that album boring? I mean, I can see not liking it, but it's so odd that I can't imagine finding it dull. The drummer is incapable of pounding out a cliched beat and that guitar is so massive and quirky. Karen O.'s voice isn't the most original thing in pop these days, but she's got some chops here and there. She always sounds like she's about to fall apart, which lends some suspense.

Well, sorry to hear you didn't dig 'em.

David Segal: All for now, people. See you here in two weeks.

Meantime,

Rock on with bad selves.
David

washingtonpost.com:

That wraps up today's show. Thanks to everyone who joined the discussion.