| Potomac Confidential
With Marc Fisher
Post Metro Columnist
Thursday, Jan. 23, 2003; Noon ET Potomac Confidential fills the midday lull with discussion of the latest news and a rigorous slicing and dicing of the issues that define who we are and where we live. In his weekly show, Washington Post Metro columnist Marc Fisher veers wildly from serious probing to silly prattle, and is open to topics local, national, personal and more. The transcript follows. Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
Marc Fisher: Chilly enough for you? Now this is what winter is supposed to be. It's even brisk down here in Richmond, where I am today watching the always enjoyable proceedings of the General Assembly, which this morning continued its protection of the rights of Virginians by killing an attempt to make seat belt use mandatory in the Old Dominion. Feel better now?
Today's column focused on another fine exercise by Virginia lawmakers, who spent much of the past week inquiring into the behavior and decisions of state judges in regard to lesbians. Important stuff.
Tuesday's column visited Deanwood Heights, a District neighborhood that isn't much visited by mayors, police chiefs and the like--until someone gets murdered in cold blood.
And Sunday's offering was a journey into Delaware's slot machine parlors, formerly known as horse tracks. Your thoughts begin right now...
Derwood, Md.: After reading today's column, I wanted to congratulate you on discovering the real meaning of the slogan "Virginia is for Lovers".... Marc Fisher: Oh, I forgot to mention that the good legislators have revised the tourism slogan. Now it's "Virginia is for Certain Lovers. Come on Down and We'll Let You Know If You Qualify."
Washington, D.C.: Marc -- I read your column today, and I'm not at all surprised. Having lived in Virginia for most of my life, I can say that there is a deep disrespect of homosexuals at many levels of government. As late as the mid 1980s cops in Norfolk and Virginia beach would write down license plate numbers of gay bar patrons, then follow them home. Clear intimidation, especially in a town filled with military folks. I know of several instances of gay domestic violence where the cops literally told the complaining party that all gays are violent and so they get what they deserve, then refused to take a report. This type of thinking is one of the major reasons I left the state. Why stay in the 18th century when a short drive takes you fresh into the modern world? My new home (D.C.) has its problems, but at least my private life doesn't make me a second-class citizen here. Marc Fisher: But you'll be glad to know that Virginia police will not be permitted to stop anyone for driving without their seat belts on.
Maryland (thankfully): My wife and I recently moved to the 'burbs and looked in close-in Virginia and Maryland. I was always but off by Virginia politics, but also recognized that places like Arlington, Alexandria, etc., are oases of moderation. We chose Maryland and thank God. Your column today reaches new lows for that sickening bunch in Richmond. I would be ashamed to have elected any of these folks. Sadly, few who did probably are. Forget about the coasts vs. the middle of the country, the border of the so-called "red" and "blue" states is the Potomac, or maybe the Virginia half of the Beltway. Marc Fisher: Good question--where exactly is that border line? Is it the Beltway? Is it the Arlington County line? Is it pushing out toward Sterling and Leesburg?
Bowie, Md.: Marc, The weather forecast I saw last night said that today is the coldest day in Washington in the last seven years. Since last winter was mild, it is also the first time Washingtonians may notice that the Wind Chill Index (formerly Factor) was revised in November 2001 and is no longer as cold as it used to be. A temperature of 15 with 20 MPH winds was -17 in the old system, but is only -2 in the new. A calculator for both the old and new Indexes is available here. Marc Fisher: The wind chill index has always struck me as one of the most bogus measures around. "It feels like -23 degrees out there," the TV weatherfolk are always telling us. No, it feels like what temperature it is. And it's windy, which it often is when it's cold.
Ballston, Va.: Whatever one might think about the Roe v. Wade decision, can we all agree that it would have been a lot more considerate for the Supreme Court to have handed down its decision in April or May, when the weather is a lot more pleasant? A January anniversary makes it awfully tough on the protestors. Marc Fisher: Demonstrations, on the whole, are a spring sport, though there's also a short fall season. Winter demos never live up to expectations. And summer is just too painful for any political movement to get any traction. The abortion people, pro and con, need to find themselves some other anniversary date with a more attractive place on the calendar if they want to move their issue back toward the center of Americans' attention.
Alexandria, Va.: Remarkably well-written story about casinos and the real-world patrons. It reminded me of visiting a few riverboat casinos in northern Mississippi a few years back. The state opened up to gambling as a way to enrich the mostly impoverished north end of Mississippi, but that enrichment seemed to simply manifest itself as bigger roads to the casinos and not much else ... clapboard houses still dotted the roads next to empty fields. If you want to see what a casino really is about, go visit one on a Sunday afternoon where the patrons are trying to win some money back, and watch their faces. Marc Fisher: Thanks for the kind comment. Sure, there's a lot of pain in casinos, but people often enjoy even when they're losing, and it's one of many activities that we condone for adults that have the potential to be very self-destructive. I don't have much problem with that--the whole idea of this country is to give people the freedom to follow their own individual paths, so long as they don't tread on others. My problem is with the state jumping on the gambling bandwagon to raise money for legitimate purposes when it should be doing the harder political work of raising that money in a fair and progressive way, through taxes.
Laurel, Md.: Marc, I'm a life-long horse racing fan (except for periods when I've gotten disgusted and stayed away for a couple of years). My wife is a slot player, so I'm one of those few people looking for the small signs pointing the way to the grandstand. The difference between Charles Town and Delaware Park before and after slots is NIGHT and DAY. Start with free admission and parking, two areas in which Laurel and Pimlico currently try to get just as much as they can from visitors. Charles Town especially used to be a backwater in which the world's cheapest racehorses ran for the country's lowest purses in a decrepit facility. To be fair, Andrew Beyer described Delaware Park as the "finest track between Saratoga and Hialeah" even before slots, and he was right. Racing's problem stems from the fact that it used to be about the only form of legal gambling available to most people. Before state lotteries, Indian Casinos and Atlantic City; legal gambling was basically Nevada, church bingo and the track. Because the "house take" from racing is so high, it lost the "just gamblers" when competition appeared, which of course left just the good horse players competing with each other for an ever-smaller pie. (See Rosecroft.) Since competition from other gambling is what is killing racing, letting the tracks get into the other gambling business is a reasonable step in revitalizing it. But I would add one caveat: Racing needs to "link" slot income with another necessary step -- consolidation. During part of the summer, Charles Town, Maryland, Delaware Park and Philadelphia Park are all running simultaneously and competing for the same population of horses. The different states need to start thinking of themselves as a single circuit, not trying to run as entirely different operations distinct from each other. Marc Fisher: Well, sure, if tracks need slots to save horse racing, it makes sense to permit them to do what they need to do as a business. But I still don't see the justification for the state reaching in and becoming an active partner in encouraging citizens to toss their coins into the slots.
And don't we at some point reach a moment when we have to ask why it's worth extreme measures to save horse racing? If the public isn't interested, maybe it should be permitted to die a natural death--or at least retrench to its natural level of support.
Washington, D.C.: Marc,
What do you make of the move to make the D.C. primary the first in the nation? I think it's a great idea and seems to have broad support from the council to voting rights groups. Marc Fisher: Did you hear about the editorial in the Manchester (N.H.) Union Leader that (obviously) opposed D.C. having the first presidential primary and said the District is disqualified from any such idea because of two words: Marion Barry?
Kind of sad that the people who hate us have nothing better to harp on than vestigial memories of a pol who's long since faded from the scene and who is a shadow of his former self.
I like the idea of the first primary as a way to draw attention to the District's lack of voting rights. Both parties, of course, vehemently oppose the idea and would try to bar our delegates from their conventions. But it's worth pushing the issue anyway. Let's hope the D.C. Council moves aggressively on it.
Lexington Park, Md.: So I guess the real question now is what if you're in a bar in Virginia, not driving but drunk, and a lesbian? Is the death penalty allowed? Marc Fisher: No, it is not allowed. It is mandatory.
Richmond, Va.: Hope you're enjoying our fair city, even if the General Assembly isn't the most representative locale to visit ... anyway, getting any feedback on where the Republicans plan to cut the budget that's different from Gov. Warner, especially in light of the $1 billion plus in new spending bills submitted? Marc Fisher: Well, it sure ain't gonna be the DMV offices, because actual taxpayers go there. Taxpayers also use the services that will be cut, but in smaller numbers. The big victims of budget slashing will be higher education, mental health, Medicaid and yes, Virginia, transportation. Especially colleges, which can hike tuitions, and mental health and Medicaid, whose constituencies tend to be less politically powerful.
Maryland: So, while the the Virginia legislature tirelessly probes the private lives of judges it seems such a profoundly beneficial and simple measure as a seat belt law as an inappropriate government intrusion? Aren't there enough sane people in this state to be troubled by this? Marc Fisher: No.
Or maybe yes, but they don't care.
But more likely, no.
Alexandria, Va.: Without being there, I hesitate to condemn the Virginia legislature re: Askew. If anything, all the situation proves is that a sexy issue is a sexy issue, whether it is of a hetero or homo nature. Marc Fisher: Quite true -- it seems no political body can resist the temptations of a good sex story, just as no journalist can resist same (and few news consumers, while we're at it.)
Bull Run, Va.: Mr. Fisher, your column on Judge Askew was more balanced than most on the subject, especially those from Newport News. Isn't it just an unfortunate fact of life that since a party can't oppose every judicial nominee, as much as they'd like to, they have to pick on ones who are vulnerable? I think you see that in the U.S. Senate and now you're seeing it in the Virginia General Assembly. Judge Askew gave some conservative Republicans an opening and they pounced. Marc Fisher: Thanks -- yes, she gave them plenty of meat to gnaw. And yes, this was very much ideologically driven. But this inspection of a few judges is very much a change from how judges have been vetted in the past in Richmond, where the Democrats used to rely on local bar associations to bring them complaints about wayward judges rather than conducting their own legislative probes. You could argue that the lawmakers are finally doing their oversight jobs themselves, but the fact is that they are not doing it in any comprehensive way, but are only jumping on a very small number of exotic and sensational cases.
Those Wacky Virginians: Hey Mark -- if you're looking for another primo bit of Virginia's lovely history with regard to its gay and lesbian citizens go back to the late 80s/early 90s, when a gar bar opened in Old Town. They were harassed on a variety of fronts, partly because Virginia had a law that made it illegal to sell alcohol to homosexuals. Don't know if that one is still on the books. Isn't it ironic, then, that one of the most gay friendly communities in the metro area is Arlington? When I lived there Jay Fisette (openly gay) was the head of the county council. I always thought they should secede and join D.C., myself. Marc Fisher: You should see how some of the lawmakers down here roll their eyes at the mere mention of Arlington. No one here in the bureau has ever heard of a law like the one you mention.
Reston, Va.: Wind chill isn't completely bogus. Your body does cool down faster when the wind is faster. Especially as the wind tends to negate the insulating effect of clothing. You will get frostbite faster in wind than in calm. Marc Fisher: And wear a hat, like your mother told you to.
Ex New Englander: Marc, it's the Manchester Union Leader. Anything on its editorial page is, by definition sad. The folks running that paper are somewhere to the right of Pat Buchanan. You really can't take anything in that paper seriously. By the way, New Hampshire is the Virginia of New England. Although New Hampshire actually has a civil rights law that includes sexual orientation (though they were one of the states that initially refused to have an MLK holiday.) Marc Fisher: True, true, but regardless of ideology, New Hampshire is going to fight us tooth and nail if Washington tries to squeeze its way into the #1 slot in the presidential primaries show. That is, after all, the state's only nationally-known attribute. (Well, there's also the slogan on the license plates--Live Free or Die.)
Washington, D.C.: Most of the country would probably agree with the Manchester editorial. They seem to think that because D.C. voters voluntarily chose to elect a con, crook, drug addict, prostitute-seeking, corrupt jerk to the mayor's office that they'd do the same for the presidency. The right to vote also includes the right to elect bad people to office. Just because D.C. has made some bad electoral decisions doesn't make their legal right to vote any less valid. Marc Fisher: I agree entirely. But you'd be amazed at how much mail I get from around the country making exactly that argument--that we've forfeited our right to democracy because we've elected bad pols. Man, if that's the qualifying hurdle for the right to vote, we better find this country a king pronto.
Re: Primary: I oppose the D.C. initiative simply because it will let the media frenzy begin even earlier than normal. Marc Fisher: We're probably talking about a few days' difference, a week at most. And since the news organizations are all based here anyway, the frenzy wouldn't really be advanced at all.
The Commonwealth: Enough Virginia-bashing! Are there retrograde laws and individuals in the state? Yes, but on the whole it is damn fine place to grow up and live. I'll take traditional Virginia -- warts and all -- over the nanny-state liberalism of D.C. and Maryland. Marc Fisher: Can't believe it took half an hour before a good Virginian stepped up to defend the Old Dominion.
Washington, D.C.: Were you surprised that the Homeland Security Department will be in Washington rather than northern Virginia, as initial reports had suggested? I suspect that there's more to this story. Marc Fisher: Apparently, the feds finally realized they'd forgotten about Virginia's sodomy law, and quickly retreated to the District.
Homeland Security in D.C.: Does anyone have the skinny as to why the Virginia sites were rejected? Personally, I hope OHS stays in D.C. or is, at the very least, Metro accessible. From where I work downtown -- Tysons would be a 45 min. drive. Marc Fisher: Could be that that was a factor too -- can you imagine the outcry if, after a terrorist attack, it became apparent that many of the essential personnel couldn't get to Homeland Security HQ because they were stuck in Tysons traffic?
Greenbelt, Md.: So it's OK for Vance Wilkins to lose his post because of his inappropriate advances (he, too, paid a settlement). But for the woman judge to also suffer the same fate for similar inappropriate behavior (and payment of a settlement) is backwards? Maybe Wilkins should come back. Marc Fisher: No, you're right, they are somewhat similar cases, and I have no problem with getting rid of a judge who lies and tries to cover up a harassment case. The question is whether the legislature was going after her and the other women judges solely because of their role in cases involving lesbians, and whether that's appropriate.
Washington, D.C.: If a white, male judge had settled with a female charging sexual harrassment and his fitness for the bench was questioned would you be as upset? Marc Fisher: I think the issues would be exactly the same--the judge would have raised legitimate questions about his fitness to serve, and the legislature would have to decide what the right threshold for tossing out a judge should be.
Ha!: And you think "essential personnel" are going to take METRO? Marc Fisher: They do it all the time -- check out the Pentagon Metro station, you'll be struck by how many brass use public transit. Of course, the limo crowd would never go underground--being seen being chauffeured is what they're all about. Last night on Nightline, I was struck by the tape of the chief of NARAL stepping into her limo--there's grassroots activism for you.
Washington, D.C.: Can somebody please tell me what protesting accomplishes? Protesting has no utility anymore! All you do is annoy people who live and work here and have to dodge you on the streets and push through you in the Metro. I guess it's good for the hotels and hot dog vendors though. Marc Fisher: Oh, come on! Protests can move millions. I've never felt anything more powerful than the silence of a million East Germans marching around the ring road of Leipzig in the fall of 1989, holding candles, daring the Commies to shoot them.
Arlington, Va.: Marc, thanks for posting the Web site for safestreetsdc.orglast week in your column. It's amazing the stories we're reading about how horrific the MPD admin is, along with the troubles the good cops have in trying to do right by the citizens. Luckily, I live in Arlington and I'm white, so I have nothing to worry about in terms of bad police. I feel really bad for residents of the District, especially minorities and other guests of our country. Marc Fisher: Thank you, but I think what John Aravosis' Web site demonstrates is that whether you're white, black or green, whether you live in SE, NW or Arlington, you need to care about the problems of the D.C. police, who have for too long allowed too many officers to be on the force without caring about their jobs.
Washington, D.C.: Marc, With all the recent stories about how horrible the D.C. police are, I wanted to share my story with you. A friend and I were robbed at gunpoint a few years ago in Adams Morgan (yes, that infamous ward!) as we were entering a private home After the two men left the house, we immediately called police and provided them with a physical description and location. Ten minutes later there was a knock on the door. We were expecting it to be an officer who would take a statement. Imagine our surprise when that officer told us we needed to come out on the street to do an ID (believe me, an ID on the street is a surreal experience). The D.C. police, with the help of two Uniformed Secret Service Officers who happened to be driving by at the right time, had caught these two men just minutes after they had committed the crime. After we gave statements at the station, one of the off-duty officers drove us back home, and even walked us along the route the men had run to see if we could find one of the purses that had been thrown away as they tried to escape. The case went to trial, which (we were told) is incredibly rare in these types of situations. We spent three days in a witness holding room with the officers who had been involved, each telling our stories of what happened that night, laughing, hearing about how they decided to do what they do and the training it takes. When that first trial was thrown out due to a tainted jury, we had a reunion almost one year after the crime for the second trial. Another three days in a witness holding room where we met up like old friends, even sharing pictures of our families and vacations. The two men were convicted and sentenced to a maximum of 30 years in prison (each had prior convictions). I know not everyone can speak of an experience as positive as mine, and the memories of the actual crime will always be with me. But so will my good feelings about the men and women who were there to help us that night. Marc Fisher: That's a great story, and it's too easy to forget that there are indeed many excellent cops in the District, and I know that John Aravosis is hearing the good stories about the police as well as the criticisms, and I hope his site will reflect the full range of experiences people have with the police.
Silver Spring, Md.: Does it bother you that people spell your name "Mark" even tho it appears as "Marc" on every one of these posts? Marc Fisher: Well, I guess I get to quote Barry Goldwater's campaign in a positive light for the first time: In my heart, I know I'm right.
Nanny State?: In Fairfax, cops arrest people for drinking in bars. There are laws about what you can do in your bedroom. Radar detectors are illegal. Um, who's the nanny state? Apparently Virginia's nanny duties only stop when you're shooting someone or paving over farmland. Marc Fisher: That's the irony in much of what happens here in Richmond -- the same GOP stalwarts who fight against mandatory seat belt use are out there the next day pushing to use government powers to regulate people's sexual behaviors.
More on Virginia laws: From the Roanoke Times Jan. 28 2001:
"In the late 1970s, gay couples in Murphy's could dance together -- not too close -- but were forbidden to hold hands at their tables, Schilling said. In fact, at that time state law forbade bars from selling alcohol to homosexuals, who were regarded -- along with pimps, drug dealers and prostitutes -- as undesirables." Marc Fisher: I sit corrected. Thanks for digging that out.
Washington, D.C.: ok, let me clarify: Protesting in the U.S, in this day an age, has no utility, and the protestors have no credibility. You think this past weekend's protests were about war in Iraq? Please. People were yelling about all kinds of things from supposed Florida voter fraud to civil rights, to anti-globalism, to animal rights, to abortion rights... When was the last spontaneous, effective mass protest? Today's are all pre-planned, permitted affairs that simply don't move any minds. It's all about ego and status and kids who want to say "I protested." How about if they actually went out and DID something, rather than accomplish nothing by protesting. Marc Fisher: Glad you clarified, and yes, I agree--and most protest groups would too--that it has become much harder to break through to the larger public by demonstrating. But it does still happen--agree or not with the cause, I think most of us would concede that the so-called Million Man March had an emotional impact on many Americans, or that the anti-globalization demos have inserted that issue into the consciousnesses of many people who previously gave it zero thought.
That said, there is an increasing tendency of protesters to aim their messages solely at their own followers--the anti-globalization folks are especially guilty of that, showing little desire to address people who aren't already involved in their cause and treating the news media with such disdain that their message doesn't get nearly the boost it would otherwise receive.
Cubebound, D.C: "Apparently, the feds finally realized they'd forgotten about Virginia's sodomy law, and quickly retreated to the District."
You just made me snort water through my nose. Marc Fisher: Thereby giving your cubicle a much-needed rinsing.
D.C. Bashing: "But you'd be amazed at how much mail I get from around the country making exactly that argument -- that we've forfeited our right to democracy because we've elected bad pols." So how can we as a city help shut those people up? Certainly not by trying to bring the Tyson fight to D.C., or by forging thousands of signatures on a re-election petition. Don't D.C.'s leaders realize that the rest of the country is laughing at the city, and they need to be careful how they act? Marc Fisher: Good point, except that you hardly hear folks saying we should disband Congress because they act like fools. And nobody's stripping Virginia of its rights because the legislature thinks it's funny to subject millions of people to roads filled with un-belted motorists enjoying their open containers of liquor.
Marc/Mark: This chat so far: Marc - 7
Mark - 1 Marc Fisher: Victory is at hand.
Arlington, Va.: Smoking is bad for you, yes, but at least Virginia isn't telling you it's illegal to smoke outside. Give me Arlington over Montgomery any day. Marc Fisher: Nor are Virginians likely to be sent to the clink for failing to shovel snow off their walks.
Washington, D.C.: Levey thinks you're going to win a Pulitzer someday. You believe him? Marc Fisher: Yeah, as soon as they create a category for Most Posts Answered in Online Chat Show.
Goldwater: In our guts, we know you're nuts. Marc Fisher: Guy in my seventh grade class won the vote for class president by defacing another kid's "Put Your Dollar On A Scholar" posters with his own slogan: "Put Your Buck On A Schmuck."
Los Angeles, Calif.: Mr. Fisher, what a powerful image you mentioned in regards to peaceful protest in East Germany. I'd love to read about that in one of your columns. Marc Fisher: Well, you opened the door: You can read the full account if you can find a copy of my book, "After the Wall," at your local library. (It's tragically out of print.)
Alexandria, Va.: A lot of us Democrats in the eighth district are fed up with Congressman "Let's Get Tough With Everyone Who Defaults On Loans Except For Me" Moran. We need a name candidate to run against him in the Democratic primary or convention in 2004. Do you think that Fairfax County Supervisor Kate Hanley or former congresswoman Leslie Byrne might agree to run? What would be the best way to persuade a name candidate to run against Moran and liberate us Northern Virginia Dems? Marc Fisher: A lovely parlor game, and one I'd love to support, but it ain't gonna happen, especially after Moran won reelection with more than 60 percent of the vote. Sure, Hanley and Byrne would love it, as would others, such as ex-Alexandrian mayor Kerry Donley, Fairfax Supervisor Gerry Connolly, or even--ha!--Moran's brother, state Del. Brian Moran.
Reston, Va.: re: pulitzer If "they create a category for Most Posts Answered in Online Chat Show," you'll have to type faster than Levey to win it. Marc Fisher: We should have a race.
Chantilly, Va.: The arrogance of the Manchester Union Leader's ed page editor is out of control. He was interviewed by WTOP's Moss and Day this morning and not liking the questions he was asked, he HUNG UP ON THEM! Unprofessional to say the least. Marc Fisher: But totally in keeping with the Union Leader's reputation.
Arlington, Va.: Alibris.com has your book available for 5.95! It's a great used-book Web site. Marc Fisher: Go for it. I don't get a penny, of course.
Donut Lover, Va: Hey, Marc. You once put out a call to chatters for the best value on a cup of coffee. The verdict: Dunkin' Donuts. Turns out that my neighborhood Dunkin'Donuts, in Clarendon, JUST CLOSED! Aaarrrgggghhh!! What's the world coming to? Marc Fisher: On that sad note, we're over our allotted time--more next week. Here's hoping we get another load of snow before then. Thanks for coming along, folks, and apologies to those I couldn't get to.
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