| Potomac Confidential
With Marc Fisher
Post Metro Columnist
Thursday, March 20, 2003; Noon ET Potomac Confidential fills the midday lull with discussion of the latest news and a rigorous slicing and dicing of the issues that define who we are and where we live. In his weekly show, Washington Post Metro columnist Marc Fisher veers wildly from serious probing to silly prattle, and is open to topics local, national, personal and more. The transcript follows. Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
Marc Fisher: The TV screens are that eerie green of night vision once more, giving off that other-worldly glow that somehow makes events seem more distant rather than more immediate.
I was in Germany during the Gulf War, so being here in wartime is something new for me. How does this compare with '91? Jitters today? Any changed views of the war, pro or con?
There's also the aftermath of tractor man and some interesting developments in Virginia politics and in the Maryland slots situation. Plus, today's the big day for DC and Virginia baseball advocates.
Let's go...
Arlington, Va.: Your Sunday column bemoans that people on the streets Saturday, both antiwar and prowar, don't know people in the military and thus can't identify. It's not that simple -- the question is whether you can identify with the non-elite people who are most likely to die in war. The people on the streets don't make the active decision to engage the troops. The Republicans who are making the decision to a man/woman (except for Powell) actively chose to avoid placing themselves in harm's way when they had the chance in Vietnam. Their campaign contributors benefit from the reconstruction (Haliburton, Bechtel, etc.). These people know the most elite members of the military, but that certainly doesn't mean they identify with the dangers those on the front lines actually face. Marc Fisher: You're certainly right that a close relationship with the military doesn't determine where you stand on the war. I've heard from plenty of military relatives who oppose the war, and from lots of folks who have nothing to do with the armed forces but support this war. Still: I think there is a social and emotional divide in this country between those who for whom the military is an important job option or calling and those for whom the military is simply another planet. And I think that divide informs our policy disagreements.
20005: Loved your online column about Tractorman. When are protesters going to learn that if you mess up our commute, you will get zero sympathy from us? Like the bikers this morning ("Bikes not Bombs") -- if you make it harder for me to get to work, give me one good reason why I should even care about your silly cause? (Also, what does "Bikes not Bombs" mean, anyway?) Marc Fisher: It's so much easier--and such a juvenile stunt--to block traffic and get your kicks shouting "Our streets" than it is to make the phone call and get a permit and stage the kind of demonstration that would win you every bit as much media attention and perhaps even the respect of the broader public. But the choice to halt traffic and take out frustrations against ordinary commuters is very revealing of the basic disrespect and animosity that too many of these demonstrators have for their fellow citizens.
Northern Virginia and Washington, D.C.: Here's why I'm dreading going home (to NW D.C.) tonight. This morning on NPR I heard that Critical Mass, the radical bicyclist group, has decided to protest the war by riding around and tying in up traffic in Dupont Circle and Adams Morgan. Since I have to drive to my office in Northern Virginia (because of our lame public transit) I will probably be stuck in the resulting traffic jams. I mean, Dupont Circle? That'll show the president. I really, really hate opportunists who hijack world events for their own agenda. I really, really hate groups that make their point by inconveniencing ordinary citizens who might actually be sympathetic to their message, but really have enough stress in life without being trapped in a traffic jam. Can we have permission to just run these jokers over if they break traffic laws? Pretty please? Marc Fisher: Sorry, I'm not in the business of granting permission to follow your deepest and rawest desires. But I do hope that police act aggressively against that sort of protest. Yet, given the Tractor Man experience this week, there's little hope that police will do anything but sit and watch. When did the police turn into babysitters who are afraid to perform the basic function of keeping the city running?
Alexandria, Va.: Your column on the tractor kook had me falling out of my chair laughing. You are far and away the funniest guy at The Post. What's so astounding is that you make it look so effortless, while the people trying to be funny (GW) fall so flat. Why don't you do more satire? Marc Fisher: Thanks. There are some who say all my columns are satire.
I do try to mix up the tone and approach of columns. And I should add that I am a big GW fan--sorry you don't like his stuff, but he's a master of the form in my view.
Arlington, Va.: I can't help but thinking that if Chief Ramsey had been in charge of the tractor guy situation things would have ended much sooner. Do you agree? Marc Fisher: Hard to say. Ramsey defended the Park Police strategy, but that could have been professional courtesy. Certainly the mayor's spokesman was very frank and quite harsh in his statement blasting the Park Police for being so lame in their approach to Tractor Man. Would the mayor have ordered Ramsey to get that guy off the tractor pronto? I don't know, but I hope so.
Surlygirl: Hi Marc, Loved your Tuesday online column about the tractor nut and totally agreed with you. Why DIDN'T they tranquilize him? They sure do look stupid, especially now that he didn't really have any explosives. What a waste of manpower, time, and money. Marc Fisher: The police story was that from that distance, a tranquilizer dart would not have an immediate effect, and Tractor Man would have had time to detonate whatever explosives he might have had. Of course, he was about as likely to have explosives as he was to be a world class ballet dancer. And there were plenty of safe opportunities to neutralize him, such as while he was sleeping on Monday night. The whole episode corrodes confidence in the ability of law enforcement to handle anything, let alone a real crisis.
20815: I can't help but sympathize with Tractor-man, he was obviously in a desperate situation. It's just unfortunate that we were more outraged with traffic jams that the growing desperation of today's farmers. Marc Fisher: I can see sympathizing with him because he was one man going up against 100 police and FBI agents, but I don't see any call to sympathize with his purported cause. Businesses ebb and flow, industries die, that's life. If tobacco farming was once big and is now dying out, so be it. That's no reason for taxpayers to subsidize farmers. Let him go out and get a job.
Arlington, Va.: Does anyone know if there is any truth to the rumor that Saddam Hussein is recruiting discontented Iraqi farmers to drive their tractors to Baghdad? Marc Fisher: Why make it plural? One would suffice.
Washington, D.C.: Everyone from George Bush to Tom Ridge to Bob Mueller says Americans should carry on with their normal lives despite the terror threat -- yet Fairfax County leaders just decided to refuse to let their school teams travel to Washington or New York. They even cancelled a game at St. John's High School, which is on Military Road, for God's sake. Marc Fisher: Fairfax seems determined to displace Montgomery as the champion wuss school system of the Mid Atlantic States. Scrapping field trips over a conflict thousands of miles away is a classic Montgomery sort of move, but it's Fairfax that's gunning to hype up the hysteria this time.
Sadly, this sort of thing is contagious, and now the city's marathon has been scrapped for no good reason. Again, the mayor is saying the right things, expressing disappointment and urging organizers of events to carry on as usual. But couldn't he have put pressure on the race organizers to go ahead with the race? I've heard from quite a few runners today who are steaming mad about the cancellation.
Bethesda, Md.: You asked how this compares to 1991. For me, this is much scarier. I don't recall the level of uncertainty -- and fear -- from before. Even the TV coverage last time seemed more focussed on how great the technology was instead of the larger issues. Marc Fisher: In both cases, the pre-war talk about our military might created expectations of quick and relatively easy victory. Wouldn't it be more effective and prudent to talk up the downside and then breathe easy if it turns out to be a cakewalk?
Difference between '91 and today: My feeling is that people are much angrier and much more bitterly divided over the war than they were 12 years ago. Of course 9/11 is a big factor, but specifically, I think a lot of the anger comes from the fact that we haven't captured bin Laden. In recent weeks I've been amazed at the level of rage directed against antiwar celebrities like Susan Sarandon. Makes me afraid of what might happen if Tractorman's hawkish counterpart tries to crash the Oscars. Marc Fisher: As I said, I'm not a good judge of the differences in tone here as I was overseas for Gulf I. But I do know that the anti-Americanism in Europe was even more severe and frightening in '91 than it is this time, and that's saying a lot.
My sense about the opposition this time is that it is deeply felt and that it is the public expression of the lingering frustrations and anger over the 2000 election fiasco. But I think the survey data makes it clear that while quite vocal, the opponents are a distinct minority, and one that is very deeply divided from the rest of the nation.
Washington, D.C.: "An aide said Bush would make calls to several world leaders today. The aide said Bush will remain largely out of public view for the rest of the week. The only event on his public schedule today is an Oval Office meeting with Cameroon President Paul Biya." -- From a Post article on the authenticity of the Hussein tape aired last night. How in the world does Bush think that a low profile is justified this week. I think he's just made a pretty big statement, and the least he could do is face the public. Marc Fisher: Well, he made a TV address last night and another one Monday night, so he's not exactly in hiding. But yes, I would think that he'd want to get out there and use the advantage of growing support for the war and the troops as a moment perhaps even to confront opponents of the decision to use force.
Alas, that sort of direct meeting with the opposition is neither the strength nor the style of this president, so all we can do is look longingly at the Brits and the daily thrashing out of views and ideas that Blair and his opponents engage in.
17th and Penn: I read the article about the Florida students going "homeless" for a couple of days. I am a bit confused. Was I supposed to be sympathetic? I learned that there are numerous soup kitchens in the area, that some organizations that deliver food several times a day and that a phone call gets a blanket delivered. Now, knowing all this, I am still expected to give cash to the homeless? Can you help me understand? Thank you. Marc Fisher: All of those efforts to help the homeless that you list are very much driven by volunteers, by your neighbors. So I wouldn't take their existence to mean that you are free to ignore the homeless. That said, I too cringed at the report of those kids pretending to be homeless. One does not have to go undercover to understand the forces that create homelessness or the desperation of those who live on the streets.
No Sympathy for Tractorman : My grandfather- dead of lung cancer at 66.
A smoker.
My father-in-law- dead of a heart attack at
54. A smoker.
My father- dead of a heart attack at 68. A
smoker.
The most recent of these died 18+ years
ago. My question is not why are tobacco
subsidies so low, but why do they exist at
all? Marc Fisher: I agree entirely, but not because tobacco is especially evil. It's obviously not a healthy habit, but if people want to smoke themselves to death, that's fine by me. What I object to is paying to support their habit--or the farmers who grow that or any other crop.
Burke, Va.: Maybe it's because my commute wasn't affected, I'm not that worried about, but isn't a guy's life worth more than a little problem with a commute? Marc Fisher: For one rush hour, sure. But at a certain point, and surely given the need to keep the city at the best possible level of readiness in this period of heightened threat, the needs of the larger community outweigh the concerns over one protester. There was no need to kill him, but there were any number of other aggressive moves that could have reopened the city and halted his protest.
Washington, D.C.: Hi Marc, Went down this morning to the D.C. Council hearing on the public library budget. Nader and the Renaissance project deserve a huge hand for getting 80 or so people out to the hearing, especially considering the rain and the war and all. It's so exciting to see people starting to rally to this cause! Let's hope it makes a difference as they consider the mayor's proposed $500,000 budget cut. Marc Fisher: I'm glad you went and sorry I missed it. I had a previous appointment, but very much support the D.C. Library Renaissance Project and Ralph Nader's efforts to get the city to live up to its responsibility to the children and adults of Washington. It's simply sinful that the mayor seeks to balance the budget with further cuts to a basic service that has already been cut beyond all reason.
Differences: Where the heck was everyone during the commute this morning ... hiding at home? This was the smoothest, shortest commute I have had from Burtonsville to Arlington in a year. Was it the rain or the code orange? Marc Fisher: Everyone was at home watching that Baghdad skyline shot. So pretty, so quiet. Waiting and watching, hoping and not hoping all at once. It's like those traffic jams that result from people slowing to watch an accident scene--we all want to see, then we look away if there's really something to see.
Alexandria, Va.: Please allow me to make a quick point. There is a difference between 1. Mr. Bush 2. his policies 3. those men and women in the military carrying out those policies. It is possible to support all, some, or even none of the above without being unpatriotic or un-American. "My Country Right or Wrong" is the kind of thinking that has justified every atrocity in history. Americans have a right to think and say whatever they feel without fear or hindrance. They also have an obligation to inform themselves and to seek the truth. Mr. Bush has committed a great deal of this country's treasure, human and monetary, to this enterprise. Let's hope the outcome justifies the expenditure. Marc Fisher: You're right, of course. Unthinking patriotism is as offensive as wrongheaded, reflexive opposition. But there's also a natural desire to rally around the flag when our fellow citizens are risking their lives for us. That brings us back to the point at the top of the show--do we still have that emotional connection to our troops when so many of us live in worlds utterly apart from the demographic slice that most of our military men and women come from?
Washington, D.C.: I'm really tired of self-serving folks like the NCAA official who said that one reason the tournament would proceed is that we can't let a tyrant determine what we do. Excuse me? This was one of Hussein's goals? Continuing a basketball tournament as an act of patriotism (oh, yeah, I guess it might make some money, too). This isn't even like 9/11, when terrorists came here in part to disrupt our lives (though many folks made it sound like continuing their routine activities -- nothing new -- somehow sent a message to terrorists). Me, I'm going to buy a six-pack tonight: to do otherwise would mean Hussein had won. Marc Fisher: Sure, the Otherwise The Terrorists Have Won game can be stretched waaaaay too far. And obviously, going ahead with the NCAAs or the Oscars has nothing to do with sending Saddam or the terrorists a message. But we should go ahead with regular activities not to send any messages overseas, but to make clear to ourselves that we are not going to be thrown into lives of terror and hysteria. It's important to maintain routines and live our lives because that's our most effective defense against the corrosive effect that fear and anxiety produce.
Washington, D.C.: Yes, cancelling the marathon was stupid. And means that all the hard training my fiance did goes for nothing. (Well, OK, it does get him in better shape, and I want very much for him to live a long and healthy life, so that's all good, 'but'...) What're we who live here supposed to do, move away from jobs and families and lives, or hunker down and hide under our beds for the rest of our days? Thanks to this stupid war, D.C. is now an even bigger terrorist target than before, and will be for years. We have to live with it, and go on living with it. You can't hide forever. Marc Fisher: Agreed, except that we were every bit as much a terrorist target before this war, and while it's not a sure bet, there is a reasonable chance that if the war goes well, we could become less of a terrorist target--that is, if indeed a new regime in Iraq leads to less repressive regimes in other countries in the region, we could end up seeing this chapter as the beginning of a less threatening era.
Gaithersburg, Md: Marc, What's this I hear about Bob Levey getting a new radio show? One other thing, is he as stubborn in person as he is on his chats? Absolutely no room to flex. Hasn't watched more than one movie a year in the past twenty years? Can this all be true or just fodder to generate reader interest/conflict? Marc Fisher: Levey's as honest and straightforward as they come--if he says he doesn't go to the movies, you can take that to the bank. I've never found him stubborn, either in person or in his interaction with readers and listeners. He's Mr. Reasonable. (Sorry, I don't know anything about a new radio show, but I sent him a query and if I hear anything during this hour, I'll pass it on.)
Washington, D.C.: What's our terror alert level today? Orange? Burnt siena? Fuchsia? Marc Fisher: A calm shade of orange is being served today, perhaps a bit deeper than yesterday. Maybe they'll announce a special eerie green code to match the night vision scopes on TV.
Arlington, Va: Marc, Do you know if the DC group seeking a baseball team has established an "escrow account" or something similar to pre-sell season tickets? I seem to recall that MLB requires some sense of local support for a proposed team. Friends and I would like to subscribe, if possible. Any idea who we should contact? Thanks. Marc Fisher: As far as I know, neither the DC nor Virginia groups have set up any escrow or pre-sales lists, though you're right that that was done in a previous campaign to bring baseball back to Washington. I heard from someone in the DC group that they will at some point establish such a list, but not yet.
Washington, D.C.: Marc -- The investigation of the Washington Teacher's Union officials seems to be the slowest-moving investigation since Chief Soulsby. Any thoughts as to when we'll see indictments, and why it's taking so long? Is it a case where the suspects still have enough political "juice" to slow things down? Marc Fisher: The prosecutors insist they are diligently working on bringing the perps to justice, but our US Attorney's office is chronically slow and especially so on anything that smacks of public corruption. Add to that the fact that this is perhaps the least publicly responsive office in the entire Washington bureaucracy--and that's saying a whole lot--and you have the perfect recipe for lack of trust. Sad to say, the D.C. prosecutors have been lax about pressing corruption cases for more than a decade, since the departure of Joe diGenova, the last Washington prosecutor who understood how to run such an office.
Maryland's Budget Woes: Does Ehrlich have a jet? The following is from a story on moves by the king of Swaziland to use public funds to buy an executive jet for his own use (if it weren't so tragic, I'd admire this minister's chutzpah): Magwagwa Mdluli, minister of natural resources, told one drought-stricken community: "The king needs a jet to travel the world and get you jobs and food." Marc Fisher: In Annapolis, the jet is called slots.
Vienna, Va.: Marc, I'm excited about the decision of Kate Hanley to enter the 8th District race. One, is she too rusty after not being seriously challenged in years past, and two, is her success contingent on Byrne, et al, not hopping in? Marc Fisher: At the moment, it looks like Leslie Byrne is seriously considering challenging Jim Moran in '04 along with Hanley, and obviously, the more the merrier as far as Moran is concerned. A strong, well-funded bid by Hanley might be enough to knock off the troubled congressman, but if several Dems jump in, Moran could squeak by with a relatively small plurality. That has to be his dream right now.
Anti-Americanism in Europe: "I do know that the anti-Americanism in Europe was even more severe and frightening in '91 than it is this time." That's amazing. The media has portrayed it as exactly the opposite. Marc Fisher: Such reports are dead wrong. The level of animosity, the death threats to Americans, the vicious attacks on the streets, the obscene comparisons of Americans to Nazis--all of that seemed considerably stronger in '91 than it is now.
The Troops and Us: Interesting question you raise. I am one of those people far removed from the military - I can honestly say that never for a moment as a young man did it so much as cross my mind to consider the military as a career option. When I got to college and saw all the ROTC students (we had a big program at my school) I thought, "What is this?" I'd never heard of it . And it's hard to miss that enlisting is an "option" for a lot of people who don't have a lot of other options, especially in the current economy. Personally I think it's a lot easier for people to want to go to war when it's not their kids. Maybe we should ask the parents of, oh, almost the entire Bush senior staff. Marc Fisher: Right. This was a fear that many people across the political spectrum expressed when the draft was dropped. The history of non-conscripted armies is that they too often become a force apart from the mainstream of society. I don't think that has proven to be the case thus far in our short experiment with the all-volunteer force, but there are certainly elements of that problem evident in the debate over the Iraq war.
Alexandria, Va.: I'm a regular on a travel chat site, and I can't believe the number of people who say "It's not that I'm scared to travel, I just don't feel right taking a vacation while we're at war." What? Did they also decide they shouldn't live their normal lives when thousands upon thousands were starving (and still are) in Africa? Or when Omagh in Northern Ireland was bombed a few years ago? Or when the earthquake hit Mexico City? Hypocrites. Nice way to pick and choose your tragedies. Marc Fisher: Good point. I think this is the perfect time to take a vacation. I might not choose the Middle East right about now, but certainly it's a good moment to go to Europe or Asia or around our country.
Washington, D.C.: My husband's from Northern Ireland, and he just laughs and laughs when he hears all of these cancellations. Marc Fisher: Despite 9/11, we still act like a country of people who have never felt the ravages of conflict and who have not yet developed the ability to separate our daily lives from the winds of conflict.
Arlington, Va.: SInce we are at war how's about exempting the military and DOD employees from HOV restrictions! Marc Fisher: Good try. Sorry.
Anti-Americanism ...: On the other hand, the mindless anti-European sentiments here are like nothing I've ever seen. The administration has successfully changed the conversation from their diplomatic ineptitude to those darn unreasonable French who wouldn't go along with a rubber stamp process. I'm sorry, any administration that can't get along with France and Germany should be booted out of office ASAP. Marc Fisher: Yes, the administration botched the diplomatic side of this buildup. The president's father would surely have been able to move the French and Germans at least to a position in which they weren't direct antagonists--even if they didn't come along for the adventure. But the French position is wholly indefensible--they had a moral and diplomatic obligation at least to go along with the tough talk in the early stages of the build-up, if only to see if Saddam could be taken down by threat alone. Oddly, the opponents of the war seem not to question the French motives, which, unlike ours, are indeed tied to oil interests.
Anti-Americanism, Ill.: MarcP I'm not doubting you, but I'm curious: How do you know that anti-Americanism in Europe isn't as bad now as it was in '91, if you were there in '91 but are not there now? Do you have sources on the ground there? Marc Fisher: Good question--yes, I am judging this from afar, and yes, from talking to Germans and other Europeans and reading the European press and comparing '91 to now.
Arlington, Va.: Why is it that when oil prices jump gas prices jump right along with them, but when oil prices fall gas prices stay high before drifting back down ever so slowly? Marc Fisher: Asked and answered, as they say in the law biz.
We're over our time, so thanks very much to all for coming along. Stay dry and safe, and write if you get work.
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