| 'Manor House'
With Lord of the Manor, Sir John Olliff-Cooper and Kitchen Maid Antonia Dawson
Wednesday, April 30, 2003; 11 a.m. ET The scullery maid quits in a huff. The first footman and the hall boy are found passed out on the estate grounds, still drunk from an all-night bender. And just when it seems that things couldn't possibly get any worse, the hall boy and the new scullery maid are caught doing more than the dishes. Such is Edwardian life at Manderston, a 109-room Scottish mansion, the setting for the latest PBS "hands-on history" series, "Manor House." Presiding over the young servants are the no-nonsense butler and the matronly housekeeper. And above them all, literally and figuratively, is the aristocratic family living a life of elaborate banquets and balls upstairs.  | | Sir John Olliff-Cooper | Master of the House John Olliff-Cooper and Kitchen Maid Antonia Dawson were online Wednesday, April 30 at 11 a.m. ET, to discuss the six-part cultural-reality series documenting the experiences of real-life, modern people living in a historic time. "Manor House" airs on PBS beginning Monday, April 28 for three nights (check local listings). Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
Farmington, Mich.: Sir John: You were magnificent as a 1905 gentleman, perfect! Do you feel that you'll always be Sir John now, having lived the part? Ms. Dawson: You worked very hard during your stay at Manderston, yet I frequently see you smiling and laughing. What was the hardest part of your role? John Olliff-Cooper and Antonia Dawson: John: I won't always be Sir John. I'm now John. As much as I loved the part I tried very hard to be that person, but as soon as I came out I tried very hard not to be that person.
Antonia: The two hardest things about being at Manderston -- the practical issue of working with Monsiour, who was so eccentric, although he's a genius. The other aspect was that it was a complete change in my situation in that I was unable to have an opinion or have what I say matter, which is completely different to my 21st century lifestyle.
John: It was interesting watching the films. I think it was Jessica who said, "I hope they're not too into their roles." I was absolutely into my role, not for personal aggrandizement, but because I really wanted to know what it was like then. I felt that there was no point doing it at 98 percent. Interestingly, one of the directors said before we went in, you will find it hardest when you depart from the person you're supposed to be in 1905. If you bend, you'll find it harder and harder. And that was true.
Alexandria, Va.: To what extent does the class hierarchy which is so visible in Edwardian times and on your show, still linger beneath the surface of modern British society? And if it does linger, did modern social class differences affect the personal relationships on the set of "Manor House?" John Olliff-Cooper and Antonia Dawson: Antonia: Certainly in the circles I move in at the moment, there are very few of the class distinctions that were about in Edwardian times. Obviously I'm still very much aware (because I work for the police) that society isn't as good as it could be and there are still a lot of poor and underdogs in the society we live in. It's given me the good and bad aspects of both really and I can see the faults up close in both periods.
John: What possibly doesn't come across in the films, but was true to me as a character, was that I am pretty right wing and I do not believe that Jack is as good as his master. I believe other have more than others. I'd give some people four votes and others none. That is how I feel. I think everyone has a personal dignity, but their worth within society is not equal.
John Olliff-Cooper and Antonia Dawson: John: this applies to me as much as others. I believe I'm inferior to some and superior to others in many ways. There are some very fine people and I am not as fine.
Antonia: As a Christian I personally don't believe I am superior or inferior than anybody. I'm luckier, but not better or worse than anyone.
Chevy Chase, Md.: What was the reaction in Britain to the program? John Olliff-Cooper and Antonia Dawson: Antonia: I think in England it was filmed in a slightly different way and did have a lot more different aspects. I like the American program so much because it focuses on the characters more, which makes more sense of why we react like we do. It was the best, highest watched program -- Channel 4 put on. It caught the mood of the day with "Gosford Park" and at the moment there's a new program on called "Servants" which is about them in the 1800s -- it's drama. Everything from fashion, it caught people's imaginations. It's in fashion to be an underdog.
John: I think the reaction was fairly predictable. The middle classes thought the servants rather flaky and the lower orders thought he above stairs folk were appalling. So I think it went along class lines.
Bethesda, Md.: This is for Antonia: It seemed like most of the servants did not really understand the the roles that they volunteered for. How was your role explained to you beforehand? Did the reality match up with what the producers explained? It seemed like the inequality struck most of the servants as a surprise, and they couldn't cope. Like when you complained to Sir John that his punishment wasn't fair. Not much about Edwardian life was based on fairness. It seems like the servants should have known that going in. John Olliff-Cooper and Antonia Dawson: Antonia: I think that's easy to say looking at the program. HOwever, when you actually dove in to live it it's very very different because at the end of the day it's a TV program, but for three months its your life. We were all aware and have some sense of history and we knew how it was going to be hard. I think it's the mental issue of the fact that you don't matter being hard to cope with. IN actual fact, we've had, "I don't know how you could have done it." NOt just from people of my age who wonder, but older people who are born better and wiser, shall we say, say I don't know how you could have done it. At the end of the day, we all had an option to walk out and only two of them did and I can see how we may look flaky, but I personally know that I wasn't flaky and my colleagues weren't.
John: From my point of view, I think we were chosen for what we were and were not. If you were going to choose someone who would play the proper historical game you wouldn't have necessarily chosen the servants who were chosen. The biggest problem was that we really couldn't dismiss anyone. My instruction to Edgar was that no one be dismisses no matter what. On reflection, I think this was an error. There were lower people who deserved to be there and almost no matter what they did and others I felt should have gone because of the distraction they were. I Think this told in the telling of the story -- that we went in to investigate that period and ended up with something of a soap opera -- the boy having a fling with a pretty girl. It took an awful lot of camera time and not what we were there for. It was just in search of viewing figures. IT wasn't entirely authentic, because in that period people that did some of the things that were done, would have been on the road in 20 minutes. This was not a practical proposition for us and it tended to stop the production.
Antonia: IT was a social experiment. We weren't there to be Edwardian, but to be 21st century people living in that era -- it was how to cope and we were encouraged to moan when we weren't happy, so the whole point of the program was moaning about what we didn't like. So, the point was not to be Edwardian, but to see how we deal with living that life.
John: That would be fine as long as they live as Edwardians and discuss what's going on.
ANtonia: That's not what you did.
John: We stuck with it.
Antonia: it was different downstairs.
Chicago, Ill.: Do you regret the "even Jesus said there would always be poor people" comment? Especially after seeing the terribly hard work the servants were doing? John Olliff-Cooper and Antonia Dawson: John: No, that's the fact of the matter. I can be PC and say I wish I hadn't said it, but at this stage of the game I have to say I don't give a good cuss about what people said.
Antonia: However, if you don't think that comment was stupid, I'm astounded.
John: Fine, everyone can be astounded. It's an absolute fact.
Antonia: It's not a fact. It's astonishing you stand by it. It's condescending and -- you can quote Jesus all you like, like Hitler did. What you said was completely ridiculous and for you to stand by it.
John: What is wrong with what I said? There are always some people who are poorer than others.
Antonia: And that's what you meant? I think you sounded condescending.
John: I"m one of the most charitable people you'll meet in your life.
Antonia: YOu've told me what you do, how many rooms you have in your house, how much you own. But you've never asked me a personal question about me. I know how many people can fit on your lawn in a garden party.
Beavercreek, Ohio: In Tuesday's online chat it was mentioned that the laundry was sent out due to the lack of laundry staff. Do either of you know, would an estate of that size have had more inside staff than "Manor House" or was the staffing about right? John Olliff-Cooper and Antonia Dawson: John: It was about half what it should have been.
Antonia: Manderston had a laundry under the courtyard, but it was in such disrepair that they couldn't refurbish it for the program or staff it. So the laundry was sent out.
Pittsburgh, Pa.: For John: After last night's show, it seemed as though Avril's relationship with you and your wife had deteriorated. Was this an accurate portrayal of your relationship? If so, has your relationship returned to its normal state since filming has ended?
John Olliff-Cooper and Antonia Dawson: John: Her relationship has sort of returned to normal with my wife, but she won't talk to me at all, which is fine. The problem was that Avril was looking for me to flex in her direction and put her in the biggest guest room to make her more comfortable. She wanted her boyfriend there to sleep with her and I said this wouldn't have happened in Edwardian times, so no. And she wanted a lot more authority that she wouldn't have had in the period and both Anna and I felt she was getting out of hand, so we maintained a certain politeness in the house, but after the filming she exited stage left and hasn't been seen since, but this has roots in her previous life.
Falls Church, Va.: John and Antonia: Hello. Has being on the Manor House changed your daily lives at all. Do you have new TV offers or other opportunities? Are you famous in England?
Thanks. John Olliff-Cooper and Antonia Dawson: John: 15 minutes of fame... we're still accosted in the supermarkets and people stare a bit. It's a very strange business. We're asked to do talks and lectures. But fame, no. Infamy in my case.
Antonia: Definitely not famous. I'm lucky enough -- as the program has aired around the world -- I just got back from New York. It's all fun to do. It's not work as such. There's normal 10 hour working days six days a week now.
John: And I still work. Part-time, but I still do.
Bath, Pa.: Antonia, You are amazing on the show. Manor House really makes me think about my work and how it is not really as bad as it seems. Did it take a while to switch channels and go back to your life in the 21st century?
Did your experience change the way you deal with situations in life now? Thanks for some really wonderful television programming. Timothy John Olliff-Cooper and Antonia Dawson: Antonia: It was harder going back into the 21st century than going into the house. You went through all these hardships with a very close family -- the other servants. So when you got back into modern day life it was a case of wanting to carry on that relationship with all those people. As far as anything else goes, it just made me more positive in general things -- not only in my personal situation, but also on a professional basis -- people do take note of what I say and act on it as well.
John: We were appalled by the sort of slapdash air of the 21st century and came back on the train with mobile phones and people swearing at others and we were served coffee and I thought, goodness, you ought to see how it's properly done. We were actually grateful and fond of the staff, though not reciprocated. So there was a tremendous feeling of loss. The gaff was caused by the loss of Edgar and Morrisson. So it did feel strange coming out and we felt we should be talking to them every day.
Has it changed my approach to life? Not very much. I'm trying to be a bit smarter. I'd become quite casual. I'm maybe a bit less casual now.
Calgary, Alberta, Canada: Mr. John Olliff-Cooper I want to know if you have ever traced your family tree back to the Edwardian age and what did your ancestors do? Also,what do you miss the most about living as an aristocrat? John Olliff-Cooper and Antonia Dawson: John: I can go back quite a way on both sides. On my mother's side that particular generation were living in the highest house like Manderston and my father's side they were farmers.
I miss -- we live quite well, and this is what Antonia is cross about -- we live quite well anyway. So there isn't a lot to miss in that sense. We miss the fineness of Manderston itself. It was the most perfect house and as I suggested before, we missed the extraordinary close companionship of our two servants who were closer to being friends than most friends are now. I shared more with Edgar and Morrisson than I've shared with my close friends, and yet and three months we got closer to them and that is a strange thing. Although they were servants, they became so tremendously close to us. Difficult for them because they had to maintain feet in both camps. They knew much more about us than we knew about them and that didn't matter. But we never had the impression that they took what they knew about us below stairs.
Desbarats, Ontario, Canada: What is the very first thing you did when you stepped back into your own home? John Olliff-Cooper and Antonia Dawson: Antonia: First thing I did was walk out into the garden and take my dogs for a walk. Just ring everybody that I hadn't seen for ages.
John: I couldn't wait to get to my electric toothbrush and dental hygienist. Oh yes, and Marmite on toast.
Tysons Corner, Va.: John Olliff-Cooper Will you please comment on the pigs head incident? Why did you interpret the preparation of that dish as such a betrayal? What do make of Rob's remark that you were interested in being an Edwardian only when it suited you? John Olliff-Cooper and Antonia Dawson: John: The reason I was cross was not for not being able to eat it -- we were overfed anyway. The problem was that it was well known that Raj Singh ate with us every night, unless a good reason not to. He was quite a delicate flower and very lonely and I think he might have hung himself if not included with the family. As a hindu he could not eat meat. At that meal, I though in a studied way, the first course was frogs legs. The second and third also meat, and then the pig's head. So the poor chap couldn't eat anything. So eventually I sent Edgar for cheese and biscuits for him. So that was the source of my crossness.
Bronx, N.Y.: I love the show. How did you all get time off to do this three month production? Did you get paid? How much experience did you bring back from the Edwardian era to the 21st Century? Would you do this again? It seemed like very hard work back then. Is there going to be another show on a different era? John Olliff-Cooper and Antonia Dawson: Antonia: As far as getting time off, they grudgingly let me have three months unpaid leave. Which is difficult in the job I do. THey didn't pay us, just lost earnings. I probably wouldn't do it again. I'm glad I did it, but it holds such a special place in my heart the first time round. Not hardship wise, I remember the good bits rather than the bad bits. The lifestyle of an Edwardian leaves little to bring back into normal life.
John: We were not paid. My businesses run themselves. So although I work, I don't have to. So I had no real loss of earnings. They paid our expenses and so on. What did I bring back? I think a regret for lost fineness. I think it was a regretful, the loss of Britain that really was great as opposed to being something just called "Great Britain."
Given 24 hours notice, yes, I would do this again. Having said that, we couldn't wait to get out. The wheels really fell off the cart in the last few days. ALthough you don't see it there is a tremendous negative attitude in the house by the end and we were heartbroken and couldn't wait to get out.
Rockville, Md.: It was stated in the program that the hierarchical social structure and many rules of behavior seemed to prevent or make very difficult the formation of intimate connections, even with one's family. Given that that is not so tolerable to most people long-term, I wonder you think whether Edwardian people may have simply broken the rules more often than we think or found other ways to achieve intimacy. John Olliff-Cooper and Antonia Dawson: John: Ya, I know that's the case. When selected as the family, we read hundreds of chapters of historic information about the period and knew the rules above stairs were really as wide rather than absolute edicts. Certainly the owners of these houses could do just as they jolly well liked. If the staff did that they would be replaced. I think it's no different today. The chairman and CEO can do as he likes. The guy on the shop floor can't. People are just called staff now and not servants.
Antonia: I think I personally, and many of the servants, were completely ignorant, but certainly hadn't read up on what it entailed as much as John did. That's sort of on par with our roles really. We were a bit more uneducated about the idea. I think about where the servants may have got their fun were ferreting about and flouting their roles. That's why I look back and laugh.
John; I think, too, the production company chose people for what they'd offer the story in this case. There were 8,000 people applying. I can't believe there was no one better than Lucy. "I'm not saying I'm a spoiled brat, but my mother does everything for me." It must've been obvious. Thereby, placing a lot more pressure on the other servants. The flurry between the two youngsters wouldn't have happened.
Washington, D.C.: Do you feel you were portrayed in an accurate manor when all the editing was finally done? John Olliff-Cooper and Antonia Dawson: John: Yes, possibly. Some of the plain facts are wrong and some of the editing has joined up events that simply weren't joined and presented a different picture from the reality of that event. But, yes, I think we were what you saw. At all times we tried very hard to be Edwardian and where we got it wrong, we got it wrong and I suppose if we did it all again, we would do things slightly differently. I suspect I'd come over as the same person, though. The person who was not portrayed as her real self is Anna who is ruthlessly efficient and ruthlessly in charge. How can I say this, she's asking in the background. On the film she comes across as a pampered bimbo, which is what she's required to be. That is not the reality of my wife, but the films show the Anna I encountered at Manderston, delicious as she was.
Antonia: I think myself and all the servants I've spoken to, well, we say that's a misrepresentation of me from time to time. The actual story line may have been changed slightly to actually tell the story and make sense for the program.
John: And as Antonia said, the American programs are infinitely better than the English programs.
Yuma, Ariz.: I couldn't help but notice that the three month time period spanned the date of Sept. 11, 2001. What were you told about that event, or was all information from the modern world withheld? By the way, I've only watched the first episode so far and I'm hooked! We sure have changed a great deal in the past century! I admire your hard work, Antonia, and your honesty, John. John Olliff-Cooper and Antonia Dawson: John: That's nice. We were told about it because so many people were involved, it was thought that someone within the house might have a loved one involved. We cut ourselves off from it, though. It cast a bit of a gloom over the period and was something of a watershed. Something changed that day and never recovered. We didn't feel as remote anymore. But we saw no pictures.
Antonia: I remember it vividly because we were having a discussion in the courtyard about fighting for an afternoon off and a director came and told us and it was so huge that you couldn't really visualize what was going on. It brought home to us how lucky we are -- having everything right in front of your eyes. Back then everything was filtered and people could tell you what they wanted, not the actual facts. Although it did affect you, things weren't so significant. I remember coming out and meeting up with friends and they asked what it was like on Sept. 11 -- although I knew, the date wasn't embedded in my mind. So many people have said to me that you are so lucky not to have witnessed that. I think only after the year anniversary could you comprehend the full horror of it. I think I went through it a bit then rather at the time.
John said it brought the 21st century closer, but I felt further away from it because I couldn't watch the news.
John Olliff-Cooper and Antonia Dawson: John: We can't wait to see Regency House, which is just being made. I think that'll be and with all the experience they've had with the previous series', it'll be exceptional. I hope they don't allow it to become a soap -- a regency romp.
© Copyright 2002 The Washington Post Company | 
