Women In Iraq
With Swanee Hunt
Former Ambassador to Austria, Founder of Women Waging Peace
Thursday, May 22, 2003; Noon ET

What is the status of women in Iraq today? Security and civil liberties are major concerns in post-war Iraq, especially for women. Even in a secular Arab country where women have held jobs and independence, the role of women in the new government and in post-war reconstruction is uncertain. Will women hold leadership positions in the new Iraqi government?

Former Ambassador to Austria Swanee Hunt and founder of Women Waging Peace will be online Thursday, May 22 at Noon ET, to discuss women's roles in wartime and post-war reconstruction.

Hunt is one of Women's eNews recognized "21 Leaders for the 21st Century." She has developed policies and programs to address women's roles in wartime, and has worked with women leaders throughout post-communist Eastern Europe to establish their positions in burgeoning democracies. She also heads the Women and Public Policy School Program at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government.

The transcript follows.

Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.

Swanee Hunt: Greetings. I'm Swanee Hunt, the chair of a global initiative known as Women Waging Peace. WE have worked around the world with women who are trying to avert war, stop the conflict once it starts, or stabilize a situation that has been in conflict.

The Iraq conflict is an example of a situation where it's essential to have women intricately involved in post-conflict stabilization and reconstruction. The good news is that there are very well-qualified women to assume leadership positions. The bad news is that up until now, they have been shut out of the process.

Miami, Fla.: How can you expect women to lead their country to a new democracy if they can't even safely walk the streets right now?

washingtonpost.com: For Crime Victims in Iraq, No Place to Turn (Post, May 12)

Swanee Hunt: YOu're right, that security is a key issue, and the US needs to ask more countries to provide troops. But women need to be around the table, planning that security, not just seen as the victims to be protected.

In Kosovo, 15% of the police force is now women! That's was seen as an impossibility, in terms of "cultural sensitivity," but it's working well.

The problem is not only a women's security problem. From what I'm hearing, there's a general sense of lawlessness. Women can be part of the strategic thinking about how to deal with what is a broader social problem.

Stamford, Conn.: Only a small percentage of the US Congress is represented by women. Why should it be any different in Iraq?

Swanee Hunt: What a great question. Women represent 55% of the adult Iraqi population. What is the right threshhold for them in the new Iraqi government, for it be a true democracy?

Here's a discouraging anecdote to add to this conversation:

When the warlords from Afghanistan were choosing their delegations for the meeting in Bonn, Germany, to design the interim government, the UN,US, and others kept pressuring them to include women. A UN official told me they finally said, "OK, we'll have the same percentage of women as in the US Congress." That was a paltry 14%.

Sure wish they'd said, "Sweden."

The point is, we in the US glass house shouldn't be throwing stones. On the other hand, let's not be paralyzed by our own failures at home.

Long Beach, Calif.: I've often felt that MOTHERS have a special place within the dynamics for war. I also feel that anger will alienate, and maternal strength will conquer. Considering that we all enter life within a maternal power structure, how can you tap into that strength? I was thinking of an ad campaign not unlike the classic "It's not nice to fool Mother Nature" margarine ads.

Swanee Hunt: You're on to something. I recently led a gathering of women we called "Mobilized Mothers." There are examples from conflicts around the world, where mothers have decided to reach across conflict lines, to join up with mothers onthe other side, to put an end to the violence. Look at the work of Visaka Dharmadasa, in Sri Lanka, for example. Some 60,000 people have been killed in that civil war. Visaka's son is missing in action. She has brought together hundreds of women with missing sons to demand a negotiated peace. They're making significant headway.

Pittsburgh, Pa.: Are Iraqi women really capable of leading their country? Aren't they forced to stay home and wear Burkhas, like the women of Afghanistan?

Swanee Hunt: Even the women in Afghanistan, under their burquas, were actively running organizations, schools, medical facilities.

But Iraq is a quite different society. Women have long been educated. There are plenty with advanced degrees, interniatonal experience, professional connections.

Why, by the way, do we think Iraqi men are more capable than these women? Women have a reputation for being less corrupt as government officials, and more dependable in terms of showing up, and pragmatic in their decision-making. They think in terms of future generations and focus on priorities such as education.

Maryland: Um, slight difference between warlords in afghanistan choosing delegations and US VOTERS choosing congressmen (or women, as the case may or may not be).

We have the ability to vote, to run for office, top campaign for people of our choosing of either sex. Not quite the same choices in Afghanistan. See the difference?

Swanee Hunt: Sure, I see the difference. My point is we don't have all the answers. I'm concerned, for example, when I hear American leaders talking about "cleaning up the Middle East." Those are tall words from a rich country in which 25% of the children are living in poverty.

Washington, D.C.: Hello. I used to live in Vienna as an UN brat and went to AIS. The big thing is that all countries in Europe is one race, one minority, one language. Different in the US. So women of the world might be different in some way.

Swanee Hunt: Maybe our paths crossed in Vienna! My children were at the American School in 1994.

To your question, of course yo're right. Women are very different in different regions. But it's fascinating when you bring them into a room together, and they find their commonalities across age, race, religion, and region. I've hosted five large gatherings with hundreds of women. They immediately start comparing their strategies, and their eyes light up when they hear the similarities in their experiences.

Lyme, Conn.: There are people in Iraq who have theological objections to women serving in government. To what extremes do such people appear willing to go to defend their beliefs, and how can an American presence help to assure that women will not be prevented from serving in government?

Swanee Hunt: Your question is extremely important. Some Westerners think of Islam as having one interpretation. Since there are literally hundreds of variation of Christian faith, we should be able to understand that there are many different interpretation of the Koran vis a vis women's roles. Only the most extreme on a very long continuum would say that Islam prohibits the full involvement of women in public life.

Whether the extremists will use violence to try to frighten women and moderates away from public positions is partly determined by the signals the US sends. If we bring women into full participation in the current peace process, it is more likely that the notion of excluding them later will seem proposterous.

Iraqi women must have the opportunity to negotiate their social and political positions with Iraqi men. Our job is to ensure an even playing field for not only women, but all the parts of the society. It's too easy for the screamers to get onto the agenda, and more modulated voices to not be heard.

Somewhere, USA: Let's not assume mothers have any moral or leadership advantage over non-mothers. That's condescending to those of us who choose not to have children, or cannot for whatever reason. Being a parent has nothing to do with what you can offer to public service.

Swanee Hunt: You're clearly right. I'm only making the point of how many woman have used that shared role. In many other cases, women as women, not as mothers, have done the same. Thanks for helping me clarify.

On the other hand, when a person--man or woman--has spent 20 years trying to keep a child safe, that experience often fuels them to try to stop a war. I'm telling you what I've heard from women, in about 500 interviews. I'm not just falling into a stereotype here.

Actually, as for parenting and public service, as the mother of three, I can promise you that I've missed out on many an opportunity to serve my community because my child was sick, or had a play performance. So your point is well taken!

Dallas, Tex.: There have been strong women in government, but they haven't necessariy promoted peace. Take a look at Condoleezza Rice, or Margaret Thatcher. How do you know that women leaders will be any more compassionate or reasonable than men?

Swanee Hunt: This is the most common question that emerges when we talk about women and peacebuilding. Thanks for raising it.

It's important to remember that when we talk about "women," we're referring to generalities that are always belied by individual exceptions. On the other hand, any psychological test you've taken had a different scoring for men and women, because the norms are different.

One possibile factor, when you look at women who make it to the top of a ladder in aman's world, is that those women have learned to beat the men in their own game. They may not be representative of the norms.

In addition, a Swedish parliamentarian told me recently that when women were 14% in the their congress, they tended to vote and act differently than when they reached a "critical mass" of about 30%. So the same women may be different when they are solo, rather than in the company of other women, in the same way that men can be.

Baltimore, Md.: You say in the US that we don't have enough women in goverment leadership roles. What percentage should we be aiming for to make a difference in policy?

Swanee Hunt: The generally accepted minimum threshhold is 30%, for a fully effetive change. There are numverous countries that actually have a quota in their politcal process. That's an idea that will never fly here int he US, but we can learn some lessons from their experience, nonetheless.

New York, N.Y.: As a mother, the last thing I would want to do is go out on the streets and try to be a government "leader" when there's street fighting and chaos. I also think governments are notoriously corrupt. If I could do anything, it would be as a volunteer. Don't you think Iraqi women feel similarly?

Swanee Hunt: Very interesting gut-level response, on your part. I hear this all the time from women around the world. Politics is dirty. They don't want to be sullied. I'm sure you see the conundrum. We need women to get in there and clean up the mess.

Seattle, Wash.: I remember lots of Iraqi women met with US officials before the war. They talked a lot about the chemical attacks Saddam unleashed against his own people. Are those women helping the administration with reconstruction?

Swanee Hunt: The US State Department has taken the lead in bringing in these women, but that effort has been very uneven throughout the US government.

Maryland again: poverty under whose definition?

I'm guessing "cleaning up the Middle East" had a little more to do with eliminating totalitarian regimes using rape, kidnapping, and murder as tools of government than with rearranging government funding programs.

Swanee Hunt: The poverty line established by the US goverment.

Swanee Hunt: It's been very stimulating talking with you all. Feel free to continue our association by clicking onto Womenwagingpeace.net. YOu'll hear about women around the world--members of parliament, university students, human rights lawyers, military officers, investigative journalists, grassroots organizers--all working on stopping the violence of conflict areas.

Our report on Iraqi women will be posted there soon.

My best,

Swanee Hunt

Washington, D.C.: I'm going to assume that women in Iraq right now are more concerned with feeding and clothing their children and protecting their families from gunfire. Won't it take time to get back to "normal" before women take on leadership roles? Or do you think they should try to be nurture AND leader?

Swanee Hunt: Pat Schroeder was asked, when she came to the US Congress, how she could be both a legislator and a mother of two young children. "Because God gave me both a brain and a uterus."

Please understand that I take mothering very, very seriously. But we'll have a better world when the same question is put before fathers.

washingtonpost.com:

That wraps up today's show. Thanks to everyone who joined the discussion.