|  | | |  | | Life at Work Video Live Online
With Amy Joyce
Post columnist and
washingtonpost.com's Don Marshall
Tuesday, Jan. 21, 2003; 11 a.m. ET Is your boss driving you crazy? Coworkers stabbing you in the back? Check out this video archive of Life at Work Video Live Online - washingtonpost.com's monthly streaming, interactive career advice show with Amy Joyce and Don Marshall. Can't view the show? Get the plug-in. A written transcript follows below. Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
Don Marshall: Good morning and welcome to Life at Work Video Live Online. Let's get started. I want to send my resume directly to the hiring manager at this company I'm applying to, how do I go about finding out the name of the person? How do I find out where to send my cover letter? Amy Joyce: I don't know where you heard about the company, but if there's no contact name, send it to that address that they've given you. But then do some sleuthing, call the company, use any inroads. If you can't find a name then just send it to the address that they provide. Don Marshall: Question from Arlington Va. This person says that they're sick of they're boss always threatening to fire them and another coworker. Obviously they haven't fired them yet but they're using this as some sort of motivational tactic? Amy Joyce: There are some pretty bad bosses out there aren't there? This is an interesting situation. What it means that you want to dust off your resume, call some recruiters, figure out what you want to do. Why would you want to be in that position is beyond me. But I know times are hard but you have to position yourself so that you don't have to rely on this awful boss. Send some resumes out, network with people, and find out other opportunities outside of your office. In the meantime do your job and put up with this boss as best as you can. And if you prepare to leave as much as you can, hopefully you can move on and find something better. Don Marshall: Yeah, it comes down to basically sticking around and dealing with it, or address it directly with the boss or go to HR, or you can move on. But if you think that there is a chance of making your boss understand that this isn't the way to be a boss, then try it. Amy Joyce: And make sure that you document everything. Anytime your boss threatens you or does something like that document it so you have some sort of file so you can go to human resources later.
Don Marshall: Amy, what are your suggestions on wearing piercings to job interviews? Say a nose piercing or an eye piercing, anything that is visible during an interview. Amy Joyce: Well it depends on the kind of place you are interviewing. There are some companies and organizations that accept that as part of a culture, and then there are other that if you want the job in the tight-suit-wearing situation, then you should probably remove the earrings and piercings before the job interview. But if it's a young, hip graphic design firm or something where piercings are pretty common, then just be yourself. Don Marshall: I think a lot of people in that situation that have tattoos or piercings want to say look, I'm an individual, this is who I am and you either like me or you don't, and that's fine if you want to take that approach, but you have to understand that there may be consequences, people will judge you based on those things, right or wrong and probably wrong but they will make those judgments so you have to make a decision whether you want to tone it down or take that risk and say this is who I am except me, love me. Amy Joyce: Yes, but if it is a first interview…there's a good chance they won't. That first impression thing…can't avoid it.
Don Marshall: Let's go to a question from Bethesda, Maryland. This person says they recently found out that after laying me off, my former employer forged my signature on letters that they had sent out to their best clients they have also tried to short-change this person on their commissions. This person says they don't want to work for such a sleazy place, so they are glad they got sent packing, but they want to know if there's anything they can do to protect their image, protect their reputation. Amy, what do you do in that type of situation? Amy Joyce: What you should do to handle this is like I said earlier, document it. If you have proof they forged your signature and sent out to your best clients then try to hang on to that and keep some copies, I don't know if you're looking for legal action, I can't give you legal advice, but you might want to call a workplace lawyer or if you do know those clients and you feel like your company did something wrong to those clients you might want to contact those clients directly and just say, "I've moved on, there were some things that happened…" You don't have to get into detail because you could get into a lot of trouble for that as well, but do what you can to smooth over your own reputation, and like I said, document it, keep it on hand in case things do sort of come up later on it would just be good for you to have that proof.
Don Marshall: Which is a common theme that you hear us talk about, but you can't stress it enough. If you're ever in a situation where you feel that there is a layoff potential or there's something going on where you may end up disagreeing with your boss, you got to keep records of it, keep notes to yourself. We've got a question from Washington, DC: "The vice president of my company is having interviews one-on-one with his entire staff he wants to hear views from people about where the company's going and what people are doing and that sort of thing." This person wants to know if we have any thoughts on how do you approach an interview like that. You don't want to be too whiny or complaining or negative, but on the other hand you want to be honest. This person says they see some problems in the workplace that need to be improved so they want to be direct and straight forward, but don't want to come across as a negative person. Amy Joyce: Well then do that. Prepare yourself before you go in, make good notes about what the things are that you find that really need this serious improvement, and if you're telling the truth and not just whining and complaining and you have actual ideas about these situations and about the problems then you should go ahead and say them. And try to balance that out with what you like about the job and like about the company and that will also help buffer the situation and the whininess. If you're prepared and professional about it then it's not going to seem like your just complaining and whining, it'll be helpful and that is the whole reason your vice president is doing this. Don Marshall: And I think maybe one of the important things, and just important in terms of you enjoying your job too, is to think about what are the positive aspects of your job. Think about those things and maybe talk about some of that stuff. It's easy to get caught up in any workplace; every job has its negatives. Amy Joyce: Really Don! Don Marshall: Yeah, except my job… Amy Joyce: Do you want to share? Don Marshall: Working with you is pure pleasure! There's nothing negative about this. So, it's also important to think about those positive things every so often. Amy Joyce: Positive things, think about them, it's good.
Don Marshall: Richmond, Virginia has a question for us: "I want to apply for another position within my company, how do apply for it without upsetting my boss or creating internal friction within the company?" Do you need an answer to that question?! Amy Joyce: Tricky situation. What I would do is find out who is posting this job and go ask them if you could go out to coffee with them and chat with them to see sort of what it is they're looking for and mention that you might be interested in making that sort of transition see what feed back they have and if they're supportive of your applying for the job then you probably have to go and talk to your boss and say, listen I'm interested in this and this is why and it's not that I'm unhappy with my job right now, but I just feel that this is a good way for me to grow, what do you think of this, I would like to apply. And then that way you're sort of building a bridge and not burning it and if you do get the job just make sure you make the transition as easy for your boss as possible. Offer to help train the new person that is coming in and that sort of thing. People within organizations even though it is not necessarily this way, they should understand that there's going to be movement within the organization that's just a part of daily life working at companies in the U.S. Just do what you can to smooth it over as you go and try to be casual at first, go talk to the person that posted the job if it seems like that is a good possibility then go talk to your boss.
Don Marshall: Okay, we've go a question from Washington, DC and they sent in a very long question, I won't read all of it but I'll just get to the heart of this, which is, this person is working full time and going to school part time and they said that they're boss doesn't really appreciate the strain that this causes. And this person is working hard, but the boss feels that they should be committing more time to work, and says that school shouldn't be a priority. What do you do if you're in that situation where your workplace has accepted that they are going to let you go to school and you've worked it all out, but, when actually push comes to shove they're putting a lot more pressure on you than you thought. Amy Joyce: Yeah, it's a good time to sit down with your boss, don't be bitter about it and don't go in there with the attitude that they don't want you to learn or they don't want you to get this degree, but go and sit down and talk to your boss and say listen when we decided that this was okay for me to do, this is what we had scheduled and it's just been a little difficult for me to balance things, work is still my priority, but school is helping me with work and here's why. Come up with some reasons why he or she is also benefiting from you going to school and just have that conversation and see where you stand and then ask questions, say, why is it you think that school has become my priority or how can I do things to make this easier on you and better for the job. And then that way it's like your offering the boss more than he or she feels you have been. It would also help to talk to someone who is the director of the program at your school and just ask about this situation, there a lot of students I'm sure have gone through this. There are so many full time workers out there who are also part time students and some people have more demanding jobs than others as far as hours go, so the people at the school should be able to maybe help you figure out how to balance that schedule a little more. Whether it is cutting down by maybe one class or taking a Saturday class instead of a Tuesday night class, something like that. I don't know why he wrote the question in, but that was actually my column topic this Sunday so maybe that will help you.
Don Marshall: There you go! Read Amy's column, if you can't get the Washington Post newspaper, if you don't have it sitting around from Sunday, of course look on washingtonpost.com, just do a search for Amy Joyce and you'll find all of her work; it's in the business section. Alright, we've got another great question from Bethesda, Maryland. "As a salary employee, I'm required to work on weekends, when my boss needs help on a project. I'm meeting deadlines on my regular work and don't feel like I should have to give up my weekends." What should Bethesda, Maryland do in this situation Amy? Amy Joyce: Well, it's up to you, but in a lot of situations in a lot of jobs, you do have to work some weekends sometimes. The question is, why do you feel like you shouldn't have to give up your weekends, why do you feel like this is unnecessary, and then see if you can work something out with your boss. Say you can only do one weekend every month or every two months, but sometimes jobs take a little extra time and you have to put that extra effort in there. You might have to sit down with your boss and sort of figure something out if this isn't working out for you, but a lot of times that's just part of the job. Sounds sort of lame, but that's the situation a lot. Don Marshall: Yeah, it's sort of the nature of being a salary employee. But what if it gets a little absurd, if you're there literally every other weekend they're saying you have to work this weekend, is there anything you can do? Or do you have to address that at getting a new job or something like that? Amy Joyce: I think a lot of it depends on the project and on the boss, but if that is the situation, you feel like you can't come in every other weekend, figure out why, figure out a good explanation and go talk to your boss, say, listen this is taking up too much of my life, I'm getting burnt out we need to figure something else out where I'm not coming in every other weekend, and if that doesn't work, then as always keep that resume dusted off and start looking around for other situations in other jobs, but if you like the job you're doing and just don't like the hours, see what you can do to work that out.
Don Marshall: Alright. Just as a reminder you are watching Life At Work video live online, this is our interactive program for all your workplace issues and Amy does a text live discussion Tuesday's at 11 a.m. that you want to check out and also as we discussed before read her column in the Sunday Washington Post. Amy's also got a new book out called I Went To College For This. Tell me a little about what the book is about and why you wrote it. Amy Joyce: Well, um. I wrote it because I think there are a lot of 20 something's out there who wonder why they are in entry-level jobs and what sort of good things are coming out of those entry-level jobs. So that's what the college, that's what the college is all about. That's what the book is all about. There are a ton of interviews with 20 something's who have sort of worked their way through these entry-level jobs and come up with a pretty good career and have advice to share. Don Marshall: I think that's what not having actually read the whole thing myself, but it's on my list of books to read, very soon. It did just come out so you're gonna want to check it out at Amazon or wherever. But, the really interesting approach that Amy took is to do this with real interviews. It's not just you spouting off about this what you should do. Amy Joyce: It's not like this. Don Marshall: But, it is like this in that you know you talked to other people. It's real world stuff. It's talking to people out there who have been through it and I think that is really the best way to learn about getting along in the workplace is by looking at what other people have done. You know? And every situation has almost without question has happened to someone else. Amy Joyce: Exactly. That comfort knowing that you're not the only one there spending your first year out of college stapling faxes. Don Marshall: So, read the book. Then you can send Amy questions on her text web discussions about why she wrote certain things. Amy Joyce: Thanks Don.
Don Marshall: You got it. Anytime. I Went to College For This. Amy Joyce, the author. Alright, let's get back to questions. Delaware: "I just asked my boss for a promotion and it's been four years since my last promotion and I can't live on my current salary. He said that I haven't been working long enough to get the promotion and needs to work another three years before they're eligible for a promotion." This person says that they don't believe that and they want to know what can they do, they thought that promotions were based on performance, not based on seniority. Okay. What do you do in that situation Amy? You're due. Amy Joyce: Well, you know, you are probably right. That promotions should be based on performance not seniority but it sounds like you might not have approach this well. You're asking for a promotion because you want a higher salary. But why have you earned that promotion? What did you do so that your boss can say, "Okay you know what, you've been working really hard and you've come up with these new ideas or you've done this or you've pitched in on all these projects, you've earned this promotion." You need to come up with a reason why your boss should give you that promotion. And your boss should give you that promotion because he or she thinks that you have earned it and because he or she thinks, "I don't want to lose this person. I want to keep them happy." So, you have to figure out what you have done and go and approach your boss in that manner, rather than just feeling like, "Okay, I've been working here for four years and I need a promotion because I need a higher salary." That would be my suggestion.
Don Marshall: That's a good suggestion. Alright, a little discussion earlier about piercings and job interviews has sparked some interest from some of our viewers. One person says that they have a problem. It's a little bit different. They already have a job and they got their tongue pierced and their boss hates it and wants the person to take it out. They don't think this is fair. Do you think that's fair Amy? Amy Joyce: Oh, gosh. Don Marshall: It's a good curve ball. Amy Joyce: It is and the thing is your boss might have a good reason. Do you have deal with people everyday? Do you have to deal with people who might be a little turned off by the tongue ring? Do you have to talk to people on the phone and your tongue ring is clicking on your teeth all day? Even I find that annoying sometimes. So maybe there is a reason there. If you feel that there's no reason. If you're sitting at your desk and not sort of interacting with people all day, then you know, maybe your boss is just being, I don't know. Too overbearing. But, you might, I don't know, it sort of depends on what you feel you need to do. If you feel that it seems like your tongue ring is bringing more attention to you than your good work, then maybe it's, you do need to take it out during the day just so people sort of view you as more of a professional and take you a bit more seriously. It's a tough call. Don Marshall: It is a tough call. You know someone else sent a question that I'm not sure we're really equipped to handle. They wondered if piercings are just like any other form of expression? What you wear. The color of your hair. You know and in fact would it be discrimination to say to someone that couldn't get a job or to force or to fire them because they got a piercing. Amy Joyce: Firing someone because they got a piercing is way overboard. But I do hear a lot of times from… Its funny cuz it really is a generational thing. I hear from older workers who just get so upset as soon as they see someone come in for an interview who has a tongue ring or an eyebrow piercing. They just right away think that this person is not going to work hard or this person is not a professional. So you really have to think about that. But, meanwhile I have many other younger managers who wouldn't even blink at that. So, it depends on the culture of the company. And you sort of have to balance that out with what you want to do for yourself and what sort of reputation I think you want to send out there. Don Marshall: Yeah, that's right. Good. Interesting little uh, situation that I never gave much thought to. But, I'm part of the younger generation, so you know I'm used to… Amy Joyce: What would you do, if someone came in and interviewed for a job and they had a tongue piercing or eyebrow ring? Don Marshall: I don't think it would bother me all that much. I mean, you know, if, I guess you would look at the bigger picture and you look at everything combined. If they're a good worker and someone who seems like they're gonna do the job well, I mean then great. Amy Joyce: I'd agree. But, I'm not hiring you so…
Don Marshall: Others may disagree with us. Okay, Silver Spring, Maryland has a very difficult question. How do I handle a boss's personal assistant's overuse of perfume? This person says they've asked her directly and have gone to personnel officer twice. They've even bought scent-neutralizing spray to try and kill the perfume smell but nothing seems to do any good. This personal assistant they think is actually wearing more just to get back at this person. Overuse of perfume. A challenging issue for the workplace. Amy Joyce: Where in the world did you find this scent neutralizing spray? I think that there are a lot of people who write into this chat who would like that. Well, you know sometimes health issues are involved with perfume. So, if you have asthma or allergies then there may be a way to work that in and say okay listen this person either needs to stop using so much perfume or maybe, and this is probably a better option, ask if you can be moved. Don't sit near this person see what you can do to move your desk. But, um, it's one of those situations that again you have to sort of tread lately. Have you suggested talking to the boss of this person? You said you went to personnel. But, this person is an assistant to an executive, I think you said. So, why not talk to that executive and just ask, "Listen, is there something we can do about this?" And obviously that will be hard to do if you're not really on the same level as the executive. But, you need to sort of figure something out. One if the things that might make the world a little easier and more peaceful in your office is ask to be moved. I think that would be a pretty easy thing. Don Marshall: I have another answer. And that is, that um, you go and find the most hideous perfume or cologne that you could possibly find and you bathe in it. And you just escalate it. And you have a battle to see who can outlast the other person… Amy Joyce: And then steal their lunch.
Don Marshall: … and then steal their lunch. Exactly, and call them names behind their back. All right. I'm sorry. I don't mean to make fun. Don't escalate the situation. That never works out. All right. We've got another question from Fairfax, Virginia. "My boss just asked me out on a date." Congratulations, that's great. This person says they "like them, but this could be a terrible mistake. What do you think?" Very interesting. Amy Joyce: Don't ever date your boss. Although, I do know some people who ended up marrying their one time boss. But, it is a really tough situation. It's just going to complicate things. So if you do decide to date the boss, tread lightly and talk to the boss and say what your concerns are. And if you don't know what your concerns are, I would be concerned about potential promotions later if you break up and being ruined. Or about rumors flying around the office and people believing there's favoritism there because you're dating the boss. I have talked to some people who actually were in this situation and asked to be transferred to another department and that worked out well. I have also talked to some people in this situation and their company wrote up a love contract where they actually had to sign something. It's very common these days. Had to sign something promising that this person would not discriminate against the other person if they stopped dating. That sort of thing. Whatever you do, just be careful. Dating a co-worker, a little bit easier than dating a boss. For pretty obvious reasons. Don Marshall: I had no idea there were such things as love contracts. Amy Joyce: A love contract. Yes I've written about it. It's great. Don Marshall: Really? Do you write about this issue in your book? You know Amy's got a book out called I Went to College For This? Amy Joyce: Romance in the office-place is in the book. Don Marshall: Alright, we're going to let you go because we want you to run out and get Amy's book, but you have been watching Life at Work Video Live Online, our inter-active program about all your work-place issues. See you next time, take care.
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