The Washington Post Book Club Monday, October 25, 1999

Welcome to the online meeting of The Washington Post Book Club, a monthly program presented by the editors and writers of Washington Post Book World.

Leading the discussion is Marie Arana, the newly appointed Editor of Book World.

This month's selection is Isabel Allende's "House of the Spirits," which, according to Arana in an Oct. 3 Washington Post story, is "a complicated, intricately built book about three generations of family, about sex and the spirit, about the impossible dealings between men and women, about city and hinterland, about the politics of art and the art of politics, about a nation reeling through difficult history."

Born in Lima, Peru, Arana hails from a long career in books. Before her current post, she was Deputy Editor of Book World for seven years. Previously, she was a vice president and senior editor at Simon & Schuster as well as Harcourt Brace Publishers.

Arana earned her BA in Russian literature at Northwestern University, studied Mandarin at Yale University in China, and completed an MA in Linguistics at the British University of Hong Kong. An award-winning book editor, she sits on the board of the National Book Critics Circle, and has served on the board of the National Association of Hispanic Journalists. She is currently at work on a memoir about growing up bicultural.

Following is the transcript from today's discussion.

Marie Arana: Hello, Book Club members, Book World readers, and guests just passing through. It's a pleasure to be online with you. The Book World staff looks forward to communicating directly with you in this way every last Monday of the month.
I'd like to start by saying that Isabel Allende is not particularly fond of book critics, or book review editors, or people who sit around endlessly analyzing her work. She said once: "Critics are terrible people. They will label you no matter what, and you have to be classified. I don't want to be called a feminist writer, a political writer, a social writer, a magical realism writer, or a Latin American writer. I am just a writer. I am a storyteller." So there you have it: a bold indication that she feels that anything we say here will not speak as articulately about House of the Spirits as the novel itself. She is right, of course, but the book does give us so much to talk about: particularly in the very areas she mentions--about being female, about politics, about the problems of class and race, about ghosts, about the differences between having a North American and a South American head. So go ahead and send in a message: say what you think about all the above.

Rockville, MD: In your introduction to House of Spirits, you describe the book as "intensely feminine" -as opposed to "feminist"-. I am curious whether you were alluding to the novel's highly romanticized universe, stereotypically characteristic of popular women's fiction. For example, the book is populated by virile young revolutionaries who make love in moon-drenched forests to the sound of crashing waves and villains who are either sexual predators or are perversely effete. The novel's women are heroines -like Evangeline in Uncle Tom's Cabin- rather than actual flesh-and-blood characters. Please comment.

Marie Arana: Okay, here we are with the one word --"feminist"--that Allende despises, which is why I did not use it in my introduction. I, too, do not think the word as it is known in North American circles applies when considering a Latin context. There are strong females in the culture-- and very strong heroines in Latin stories--but the strength is not as politicized as it is here in the United States. I said "intensely feminine" because it is a book that is passionate about women; and about being a woman.

Chevy Chase, MD: As The House of the Spririts was written in Spanish and translated into English, could you discuss how true to the feel of the original language the text we read is. How much is the tone of the translator and how much of Allende.

Marie Arana: This is a marvelous question because, in truth, it is a very different book in Spanish. I've read it in both. In Spanish it is less courtly, more lyrical in many ways. That said, Magda Bogin has done a splendid job with the translation. No one can possibly capture the Latin qualities that the original Spanish delivers, but the Bogin translation gives us something else--a different book, but equally good. Allende told me that she oversaw the translation, so, at the very least, her hand was in it, too.

crofton, md: I loved this book. It presented a powerful picture
of Chile, its sensuality, its
brutality, and its wonderful
humanity. My question is:,
is the President in the book
Allende's Uncle, the one
deposed by Pinochet, and are
the events surrounding the coup pretty much accurate or
did Allende exaggerate them
to make an effect?

Marie Arana: The President in the story is indeed the author's uncle. Just as the Poet is Pablo Neruda. And just as the coup is the coup of history. Of course, there is a good deal of embroidery to make the story her own, but the realities are accurate enough.

Washington D.C.: I was intrigued by one statement that was critical of the church in Latin America and it reminded me of Steinbeck,s view of institutions. The statement was something like "the church was-is on the right but Jesus is on the left" politically. Does the author share this attitude or was it just a commentby a character?

Marie Arana: The Church has had an enormous impact on Latin America. It is a powerful institution--and I would add, quite male-- whose effects are felt in every part of Latin life. Isabel Allende is very keenly attuned to the questions of power and oppression. I would venture to say that it is probably a clear attitude on her part.

Fairfax Station, VA: I found the author's ability to draw the characters wonderfully alive and locally as well as historically connected. Yet, she also chose not to make the story clearly situated in a specific country and time; I felt I had to derive that from a variety of clues. Is this a literary device? Do you think it added or detracted from the power of her story?

Marie Arana: I rather liked the fact that she never identified the setting as Chile. I, for instance, was born in Peru, and I can tell you that it allowed me to read the book and feel I was reading about people and places I knew growing up. For those who know about Chile, the story is rich in ways she doesn't need to detail. For most of her readers, it allows a greater latitude.

Falls Church, VA: I felt that this book was too large, too sprawling, spanning too many generations. I didn't get to know the characters as well as I would have liked since they were constantly in flux - creating off-spring, then fading to the background. Do you think that the book had to be this large or that it could have focused on one or two of the generations and still been a success?

Marie Arana: I would say that you probably are not a fan of epic novels. Allende's intention was to show the evolution of a country from old, set ideas about its own society to a more enlightened view. She needed to do that with more than one generation, and she needed to show how ideas and ways of life flow from one era to another.

Harleysville, PA: Could you explain a little more re the mystical occurrances in Allende's book. How literally does the typical Latin American take these kinds of occurrances. I had read her non-fiction account of her daughter's illness and death, so I knew she was wonderful w- words, but until now I shied away from her fiction since I don't usually enjoy mysticism. I must admit I really loved this book.

Marie Arana: The Latin American culture is a lively fusion of indigenous, African, Spanish and Arab parts. In each of these cultures there is a high tendency to the spiritual, to magic, and to the strong currents of the mystical. More than anything, it is an inclination to take in a much wider range of possibilities than the North American might allow. Allende uses it very well in this particular novel, I think.

Gaithersburg, MD: To me, one of the most arresting aspects of this novel -and one that seems the most unusual to us North American readers- was its use of the macabre -Rosa's green hair, Clara looking for her mother's decapitated head, etc.- To me, this added a "supernatural" element to what could otherwise be regarded as a realistic family story. Please comment.

Marie Arana: Here's some more on the supernatural aspects. To me, frankly, so much of the real life incidents in the story are otherworldly: the gangrene in Trueba's mother's leg, the violence of Esteban Garcia, the tortures. The supernatural has a long tradition of sweeping us away from the real-life tragedies we face every day.

Centreville, VA: Thank you for recommending this book. It is the kind of book that you live in while you are reading it, it is so full of life and wonders. All the women in the book manage to live their own lives even though Esteban thinks he is the head of the family. On the other hand it is his hard work and wealth that makes it possible for them to do so, rather than live the life of constant work of a peasant woman. After all, it is not only Latin women who learn to appease their men and quietly go their own way. Esteban seems to be the only man who really matters to three generations of women: Blanca never defies him to go live with her great love, fearing to give up her social position, and Alba loves a man who loves his cause more than her. Yet Esteban, who loves his family, fathers his own nemesis -like King Arthur- in a cruel and thoughtless way and, in supporting the coup, brings down tragedy on his dear granddaughter. On the other hand his casual kindness to a young prostitute brings an unforeseen good.
A question: I recall a Latina friend referring to ash blonde hair as green. Is this the "green" hair of Rosa and Alba?

Marie Arana: I am so delighted you see the virtues of this novel. I, too, saw something very different in Rosa and Alba's green hair. An actual hair color I've seen. The Chinese, for instance, refer to ash blond hair as "green" hair. I think they have a point.

Silver Spring, MD: In what ways are we interpreting this book differently than Allende's Latin American readers?

Marie Arana: Probably in the same way at Latin American reader might look at The Adventures of Tom Sawyer. The themes are all there, the events are all there, just that the location and the traditions, which may seem exotic to you, are familiar and accessible to a Latin reader.

Washington, DC: Thanks for choosing this book! Allende is my favorite writer and I adore this novel in particular. I am interested in discussing the role of Transito Soto, the prostitute who eventually plays a key role in saving the Trueba family. Why do you think Allende chose a prostitute to portray this important role in the plot?

Marie Arana: I think this character is a master stroke. Here she is--in the end, the one person who has the power to free the granddaughter Trueba so loves, and she is a prostitute! A person we might characterize as one with the least power in a civilized society. I think Transito Soto is Allende's nod to the great power of our more human appetites. Don't you?

Martinsburg, WV: Despite his horrific behavior, e.g., towards women, Esteban Trueba appears more sympathetic at the end of the novel, and he has a mutually fulfilling relationshop with Alba. Is Allende in part making a statement about the changing relationship between men and women via this portrayal?

Marie Arana: I think that if anyone thinks that Allende is a feminist, her portrayal of Esteban Trueba in the end will persuade them otherwise. Trueba is someone we might censure, but Allende makes it very difficult to hate him. For all his overbearing cruelty, he can love. And that saves him in the end.

crofton,md: the character of Esteban
Truebas was so powerful, so
real , I'm wondering did the
author know someone like him
or is he a composite of many
Chilean landowners?

Marie Arana: Here's another one about Esteban Truebas. The truth is that in the Latin culture there is great stratification, both in the female/male directions and in the have/have not direction. The landowner--in Chile, or Peru, or Bolivia, or Guatemala (doesn't matter)-- is the apotheosis of power and maleness.

Alexandria, VA: While I liked the House of Spirits, I felt that at some points it borowed too heavily from Garcia Marquez's One Hundred Years of Solitude. I'm not referring to the general tone of magic realism, but to specific instances -e.g., using the character of a beautiful, green-haired woman with almost magical qualities-. What's your feeling on this?

Marie Arana: Well, if Garcia Marquez owned the Latin American mindset then I would agree with you. The beautiful, green-haired woman exists in Peruvian folklore, for instance. I'd wager that there are a lot of instances we could trace back to indigenous stories.

N. Bethesda: In several places throughout the story Ms. Allende "telegraphed" future events, usually impending tragidies. Did you find this an effective technique or did it interfere with the flow of the story and the suspense. It bothered me.

Marie Arana: I suppose this is a cultural thing. In the Latin context, everyone has an aunt or two who claim to have special powers in seeing the future. It's not whether or not the telegraphing is credible or not that matters, and it's not a literary device either. The main thing to remember is that Latins are always tuned to these possibilities, always hoping that these powers are possible.

N. Bethesda: Regarding your comment about Esteban being saved because he can love, I think his character and its development over the years is the best in the story. The changes in his behavior without making him static and unchanged is skillful and real. This is somewhat of a contrast to what seemed to me the rather surrealistic women in the story, particularly Clara. What do you think?

Marie Arana: Well, look at it this way: Who is the one character in the story who really changed? The women are well-formed, strong, consistent. But it was Esteban Trueba who evolved into something else.

Columbus, Ohio: I atteneded last Tuesday's forum and ADORED having the opportunity to hear my favorite living author, MS. Allende. Thnaks so much for making it all possible ~ it was certainly well worth a trip from Columbus!

I did not have an evaluation form on my chair and did want to make one observation: the photographers were inappropriatly aggresive and distracting. It was a small gathering meant to create a sense of intimacy -I am guessing- and that was spoiled by the two women with cameras, but no sense of decorum.

Your staff clearly worked very hard on the event ~ please pass along my kudos to all of them.

Katharine Moore

Marie Arana: For those who don't know it: Isabel Allende came and spoke to a gathering of Book Club members. We're sorry that we couldn't accommodate more people. Twice as many people wanted to come. She was funny, passionate, and quite lusty, I'd say. As they say in Peru, "She has no hair on her tongue."

Washington, D.C.: I agree that the novel was too broad and wound up being very thin in some aspects. I also thought the character of the French "husband" was designed purely to add some lurid, kinky sex to the novel. I really did not see where he added anything to the story that was worhty of the rest?

Marie Arana: Bingo. The French character was my least favorite as well. But he was quite necessary to cover (extravagantly) for the Blanca-Miguel relationship. Also, I found him something of a commentary on some Europeans in Latin America, who make a great deal of their being fancier than Latin Americans and take the locals for a ride.

Silver Spring, Md.: COMMENT ON THE CONTRAST IN MALE CHARACTERS,AS IN PEASANT VS. PATRON AND IF THERE WERE REDEEMING QUALITIES....i FOUND MYSELF RESPECTING THE ELDER PEASANT MALE.

Marie Arana: Yes, Pedro Garcia was a very strong character. Allende clearly has a high regard for the hard working, simple people who work the land. Nana, too (the maid), was portrayed as essentially good and generous.

Burke, VA: The novel seems to be saying that men have social power but women have spiritual power equal to or greater than the social power. I did not think these women were oppressed by Esteban. They managed to find power and rise above Esteban's controlling nature. He was just an obstacle to be overcome, and overcome him they did. In the end, he seemed pathetic and totally out of control, despite what he thought for the majority of his life. The women seemed to have the ultimate control although they were quiet about it and did not flaunt it.

Marie Arana: You have it exactly right. The spirit becomes the realm in which the women rule. The men have the government, the land, the power, the businesses--Allende seems to say--but the women make their mark in the areas of heart and soul. I'd call that ultimate control, wouldn't you?

Derwood, MD: Are Isabel Allende's other books as well known as this one? I would love to see a discussion-review-commentary on "De amor y de sombras" and "Eva Luna" It seems that La casa gets all the attention of North American readers.

Marie Arana: The other work I'd recommend of Allende's is Eva Luna. Also her collection of short stories called The Stories of Eva Luna. Her more recent work, I'm afraid, I don't like as well. There is a fierce intensity to her memoir, Paula. But none of these reaches the heights of The House of the Spirits.

Washington, DC: Regarding the comment on Satigny -the Frenchman-, I found him to be a comic element, and an contrast to Pedro Tercero, almost his antithesis. I've also read his character is based on Allende's father, who was of French decent.

Marie Arana: Yes, good. He is quite amusing, and a good foil to the honorable Tercero. I didn't know about the father connection, but it's worth checking out.

Columbia, MD: Just a statement - we were at the gathering last week with Isabel Allende. It was wonderful! Certainly a terrific way to begin the book club. Ms. Allende was a dynamic speaker- we were enthralled the entire time. We look forward to many more of these occasions!

Marie Arana: Thanks for this. Hopefully, we will have many more such occasions. With this comment, I should wrap up our session on House of the Spirits. Thank you all for being such good respondents. Remember, our next selection is Percival Everett's Suder. On Monday, November 29, Jabari Asim will be hosting a session on that fine book. Be sure to log on and join us. Happy reading!

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