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From the Starr Referral:
Lewinsky's Aug. 6 Grand Jury Testimony, Part 2

The following is from a transcript of Monica S. Lewinsky's testimony to the grand jury on Aug. 6 as provided by the Associated Press and transcribed by the Federal Document Clearing House from documents supplied by the House Judiciary Committee. Editor's Note: Some of the language in these documents is sexually explicit.

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Q: After the two incidents that you've described, did you have further sexual contact with him?

A: Yes.

Q: And I'm going to ask you just some general questions about that. The grand jurors heard that there's a chart and we'll sort of go through a chart afterwards in less detail. Approximately how many times do you recall performing oral sex on the President?

A: I think about nine.

Q: Did he ever perform oral sex on you?

A: No. We had discussed it and there were times when it almost happened, but mother nature was in the way.

Q: Okay. How many times did he ejaculate when you performed oral sex?

A: In my presence?

Q: In your presence.

A: Twice.

Q: Okay. And do you recall the dates of those times?

A: Mm-hmm. February 28, 1997 and March -- I think it's the 29th, 1997.

Q: Did you engage, other than oral sex, in other physical intimacy that would fall within the definition of sexual relations that we've read to you?

A: Yes.

Q: Were you alone with the President when you had these sexual encounters with him?

A: Yes.

Q: It seems like an obvious question, but I have to ask it. Did the President ever have telephone calls while you were actually engaging with oral sex with him?

A: Twice.

Q: And when those telephone calls occurred, did he ever talk on the phone while you were performing oral sex?

A: Yes.

Q: Do you have any recollection about when those occurred?

A: I believe one was November 15, 1995, in my second visit with him, and I know April 7, 1996.

Q: Okay. Did you ever have sexual intercourse with the President?

A: No.

Q: Was there ever a time when your genitals actually touched each other?

A: Grazed each other, yes.

Q: And do you remember when that occurred?

A: Yes. February 28, 1997. Oh, no. I'm sorry. March 29th, not February 28th. Sorry.

Q: Okay. And could you explain why you didn't have sexual intercourse with him?

A: He didn't want to. The president said that he -- that at his age, that there was too much of a consequence in doing that and that when I got to be his age I would understand. But I wasn't happy with that.

Q: Okay. I want to move away from that now.

A: Okay.

Q: And ask you whether or not you've ever spoken to the President on the telephone.

A: Yes.

Q: And can you estimate approximately how many times beginning of your relationship with him that you've him on the phone?

A: Over 50, probably.

Q: And has he initiated any of those calls?


A: Yes.

Q: Do you have any sort of idea how many times he's called you?

A: Most of those phone calls were calls that he placed to me directly.

Q: Okay. Did he ever leave any messages for you at your home?

A: Yes.

Q: And you remember about how many times he left messages?

A: I think about four.

Q: Did you save any of those messages?

A: Yes, I did.

Q: And have you provided any cassette tape of those messages to the OIC?

A: Yes, I have.

Q: Do you remember any particular messages that he left you?

A: I remember them all.

Q: Okay. Why don't you just tell the grand jury what they say.

A: They're pretty innocuous. Sometimes -- or one time, it was, you know, "Sorry I missed you." One time, it was just "Hello." And then one time he called really late at night when I was not at home and it was whispered kind of loudly, you know, "Come on. It's me." Something like that. It was always nice to hear his voice.

Q: Okay. Did he ever tell you how he felt about leaving messages on your home machine?

A: Yes.

Q: What did he tell you about that?

A: I believe it was the beginning of 1996, at some point, he just remarked that he didn't like to do that, he just -- 1 think felt it was a little unsafe.

Q: Okay. Did he ever call you late at night?

A: Yes.

Q: Can you tell us a little bit about that? Did that happen on many occasions?

A: Yes. He's a night owl, so it would be customary for him to call sometimes 2:00 in the morning, 2:30 in the morning.

Q: Okay. What sorts of things did you discuss with him generally of a non-sexual nature on your telephone calls with him?

A: Similar to what we discussed in person, just how we were doing. A lot of discussions about my job, when I was trying to come back to the White House and then once I decided to move to New York. We told jokes. We talked about everything under the sun.

Q: Okay. Was there ever a time that you began to engage in phone sex on the telephone? Mm-hmm. Yes. And do you remember when that started to occur? In the beginning of 1996. Okay. Did he participate in that? Yes. Okay. And about how many times did you have phone sex with him, if you know?

A: Oh, maybe 10, 15 sure. I'm not really -- I'm not really

Q: Okay. We can look at the chart after to refresh your recollection, but that sounds sort of ballpark?

A: I think so.

Q: More than 10, about? In your view?

A: Yes, I think so.

Q: Did the President ever tell you that he wanted to end the sexual relationship with you?

A: Yes.

Q: And did he tell you that more than once?

A: Yes.

Q: Could you tell us when he told you that?

A: February -- it was Presidents Day of 1996. I think that's February 19th. And also on May 24, 1996 -- no, 1997. I'm sorry.

Q: And just for the grand jury's information, on the chart that we're going to show them in a little bit, how do you list -- do you have a term that you refer to the May 24, 1997 meeting with him?

A: D-day.

Q: And what does that stand for?

A: Dump day.

Q: And on those two occasions, what did he tell you about wanting to end the relationship? Just generally.

A: Both were, I think, motivated sort of by guilt and just not wanting to -- more I think on the 24th of May in '97, just really wanting to do the right thing in God's eyes and do the right thing for his family and he just -- he didn't feel right about it.

Q: Did you engage in sexual contact with him after those times?

A: Yes. Kissing.

Q: Okay. After the -- well, after the February 19, 1996 time?

A: Yes. Yes.

Q: And what about after the May 24, 1997 time?

A: Just kissing.

Q: Did your relationship involve giving gifts to each other?

A: Mm-hmm. Yes. I'm sorry.

Q: And did you give any gifts to him?

A: Yes.

Q: Do you have any sort of ballpark figure of how many gifts you've given to him since you've known him?

A: About 30.

Q: And what about him to you? Do you have any estimate of how many gifts he gave you?

A: I think about 18.

Q: Did you ever write him any notes or letters or cards?

A: Yes.

Q: And what sort of cards or letters or notes would you write to him?

A: It varied on the occasion. It could be a funny card that I saw or a Halloween card. If I was angry, it could be an angry letter. If I was missing him, it was a missing him letter.

Q: Okay. So were some of them -- is it fair to say some of them were romantic in nature?

A: Yes.

Q: And when they were angry, what would you be angry about in your letters or cards?

A: Either job-related issues or him not paying enough attention to me.

Q: Okay. Did he write you any letters or notes?

A: No.

Q: Did he ever say why he wasn't writing you any letters or notes?

A: No.


Q: I'd now like to show you what I had previously marked as Exhibit 7, I believe. Perhaps somebody has the other original version.

(Grand Jury Exhibit No. ML-7 was marked for identification.)

Q: I'm going to place this before you and ask if you recognize that chart.

A: Yes, I do.

Q: And have you seen that chart before?

A: Yes, I have.

Q: Did you assist the Office of Independent Counsel in preparing that chart?

A: Yes.

Q: Did you provide all of the information that's listed on that chart?

A: Yes.

Q: Could you describe for the grand jury just generally what is described by that chart?

A: I think it's a chronology that marks some of the highlights of my relationship with the president. It definitely includes the visits that I had with him and most of the gifts that we exchanged. It reflects most of the phone calls that I remember.

Q: And to the best of your knowledge, is the chart I accurate?

A: Yes.

Q: Have you noticed anything that you would add or delete from the chart since you've reviewed it?

A: Yes. On page...

Q: Do the grand jurors have the chart?

MR. EMMICK: They do. Yes.

A: On page 5, the last entry in the chart, on 10/23, I attended a Democratic fundraiser that you guys have all probably seen on T.V. lately.

Q: Okay. Anything else that you've noticed?

A: No.

Q: Okay. Otherwise, would you say that the chart is a pretty accurate rendition or description of your memory of all of the events?

A: Yes.

Q: How is it that you remember all the events in such detail over really sort of what is a few years?

A: I've always been a date-oriented person and I had a --probably a habit of circling dates in my Filofax when I either talked to the President or saw him.

Q: And did you provide those Filofax sheets to the Office of Independent Counsel?

A: Yes.

Q: And did that assist you in remembering the dates?

A: Yes, it did.

Q: And were these encounters important to you?

A: Very.

Q: And, again, on that chart there are various categories. In the visit category -- or descriptions in the visit category area that are described as physical intimacy. And with respect to all of those, do they fall within the definition of sexual relations that I've presented as Exhibit 6 to the grand jury?

A: Yes.

Q: So anywhere physical intimacy is listed on the chart, it falls within that definition. Is that correct?

A: Right. I think the only thing that might be missing is kissing.

Q: Okay. And kissing is separately described on the chart, is it not?

A: No, not necessarily.

Q: Okay.

A: I mean, because the physical intimacy -- wherever there's physical intimacy, there was always -- there was always kissing.

Q: Okay. But where there's physical intimacy, there I was also then more than kissing.

A: Correct.

Q: Okay. So physical intimacy is never on the chart to describe only kissing.

A: Correct.

Q: Okay. There's one particular date also that I wanted to cover with you which is February 28, 1997.

A: Okay.

Q: Because at that time, as the chart demonstrates, you haven't really seen the President since April of the year before. Could you describe what the circumstances were leading up to your visit with him on February 28, 1997?

A: The president had told me in December that he had a Christmas present for me and I ended up not getting it until the end of February. Ms. Currie called me at work during that week to -- or I guess it was that day, I'm sorry, that Friday, to invite me to a radio address that evening.

I went to the radio address and when I went to take my picture with the president, he said to go see Betty because he had something to give me after. So I waited a little while for him and then Betty and the President and I went into the back office.

Q: Okay. Anti why did Betty come in the back office with you?

A: I later found out that -- I believe it was Stephen Goodin who said to Ms. Currie and the president that the president couldn't be alone with me, so Ms. Currie came back into the back office with us.

Q: And then what?

A: And then left.

Q: Okay. She left? And do you know where she went?

A: I came to learn later, I believe she was in the pantry. In the back pantry.

Q: Okay. And how did you learn that later?

A: I think that Mr. Nelvis told me. Or Ms. Currie told me.

Q: Okay. What happened when she went to the back pantry? Did you remain with the president?

A: Yes, I did.

Q: And could you describe what you and the president did?

A: Mm-hmm. He gave me my hat pin and the book "Leaves of Grass" and I was pestering him to kiss me and so we moved -- that was in the back study and then we moved over to the back hallway by the bathroom and we were physically intimate.

Q: Okay. And did you perform oral sex on that occasion?

A: Yes.

Q: And how did you -- do you remember what dress you were wearing on that occasion?

A: Yes.

Q: What dress was it?

A: The navy blue dress from The Gap.

Q: And after that incident, did you ever tell Linda Tripp that there might be the president's semen on that dress?

A: Yes, I did.

Q: And why did you tell her that? Or did you believe that that could be true?

A: I thought it was possible.

Q: Were you positive it was true?

A: No.

Q: Back to the incident with the president, how did you leave it with him on that occasion? Sort of once you finished the visit, what happened?

A: Betty came back into the back study and then I think Ms. Currie walked me out.

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