Talk About Travel: Transcript Hosted by Craig Stoltz Washington Post Travel Editor Monday, January 18, 1999

Craig Stoltz The Washington Post

Craig Stoltz: First, I want to welcome everybody to our second weekly travel chat; last week was a blast and produced lots of good follow-up e-mail and ideas. Hope it brightens your MLK day, whether it finds you at your (ack! 28.8 connection!) home PC or your smooth, company-sponsored connection.

Anyway: Yes, we've had several people go to Europe just for the weekend, on e-saver deals, and both have come back with raves about the wacky intensity of the experience. One was to see a play or two in London, the other just to dip into two or three things in Madrid. The key, they say, is to tailor your interary around one or two very special things--one restaurant or kind of cuisine you want to try, one street of antique shops you want to check out, one show you have to see, etc. Even our Madrid-sampler guy went with the intention of (1) one dish of paella, (2) one stroll through (I forget which) square, and (3) one visit to the national museum. Everything else was just hanging and strolling and snacking. Overplanning is the killer of most vacations; it’s especially so with quick trips to Europe.

Count on losing one day (of, say, three) to sleeping, napping, just slugging around in your jet-lagged state.

Olney, MD: I am an infrequent, mostly leisure air traveler. If I am planning a trip to England in late May/early June, when would be the best time for me to purchase my ticket? Also, is there a way I can get a fare any cheaper than the lowest posted fares on Preview Travel, Expedia, etc.?

Craig Stoltz: Right now, fares to Europe are in their annual swoon. I'll bet if you canvass the online systems, you'll find among the very lowest fares for the year (though some may be unavailable into May, when summer fares start to kick in). Still, the point holds: look and book now.

Cheaper than online Web sites may be consolidators. They advertise in (usally) little ads in the Post. They sell heavily restricted tickets to London; my guess is you can save $50 from published sale fares. You may be able to hit $300 for a round-trip ticket.

Washington, DC: Have you heard whether Delta and United will offer Frequent Flyer Mileage pooling like USAirways and American Airways are doing?

Craig Stoltz: UniDel (or whatever you want to call it) are clearly in a wait-and-see mode about the richer combination of ff programs. If AmUs gains traction--starts to win market share--with its richer program, others will follow. As ever, they say they have no plans for now. Consequently, and given the fact that UniDel have so much route overlap, there's very little consumer advantage now of that alliance.

Annapolis, MD: How can an individual counter being "bumped" by an airline, usually caused by deliberate overbooking to compensate for possible "no-shows", at the counter AND later. To what compensation is he entitled?

Craig Stoltz: Frankly, involuntary bumps are rare: usually the overbooked line will offer incentives, starting with minor upgrades or $100 coupons and leading up to round-trip freebie tickets, to encourage people to give up their seats. I have heard of people being involuntarily bumped, and usually the bumpees have been those who show up later at the gate or (yikes!) those who have paid the lowest discount fares. If you fall into the latter category, raise a loud stink at the counter, tell them you'll write your congressman, the DOT, etc. One guy's opinion: An airline that can't get people to volunteer to give up their seats isn't offering enough incentives.

Rosslyn, VA: There seem to be so many online booking sites: Travelocity, BestFares, Expedia... i frankly don't know which one to use. should i use them all? a particular one? can you rate these (or others I don't know about) in anyway?

Craig Stoltz: I recommend people use at least two, preferably three. Preview Travel's low-fare finder is the best way to target a low fare to many places, and it's low-fare engine is pretty robust when you try to find your fare. So start with that. Expedia and Travelocity are both pretty streamlined, though they lie on top of different Computer Reservation Systems and so can spew out, and favor, different fare data. (Travelocity is owned by Sabre, which is mostly owned by American. Expedia rides on top of Worldspan, partly owned by Delta.) If you're not checking two sites, you risk not getting even a low fare, much less lowest.

Washington, DC: As a travel agent, I find it interesting the methods the airlines are taking to squeeze us out. I call it out and out greed. I wonder what adjustments, if any, people are making to curtail fees by agencies and airlines(Delta)changing rates? Thank you,
Paula

Craig Stoltz: I'd love to hear other folks opinions on this. It's absolutely true airlines are squeezing agents by reducing commissions and increasing folks' incentives to book via the airlines' own Web sites. But I think this is just business operating in its amoral, nonjudgmental way--to increase its short-term wealth. I think in the long term, we'll find out how valuable agents are if customers keep turning to them for service--and will pay the agent directly for the services. Please, others: Chime in.

Foggy Bottom, Washingon, DC: I am trying to plan a Romantic getaway here in DC for my fiance and I. Do you have any sudgestions on where we could go for a day or so. I am trying to find packages but, they are near impossible to find. Are there any romantic hotels in the region similar to the suites in the Poconos?

Craig Stoltz: Luckily, Roger Piantadosi, editor of the Escapes page and himself just back from a weekend at the Homestead, is standing at my shoulder. He's also author of the book Escape Plans, which he's thumbing madly through as I type, and which he encourages you to buy at any neighborhood Giant grocery store.

Enough stalling (real-time Webcasts are such fun): Trillium House at Wintergreen Resort, north of Charlottesville; Nemacolin Resort, just south of Pittsburgh in PA; the Homestead (Roger recommends the facials); nice B/B: Antrim 1844 in Taneytown, Md.; and (one more!)Inn at Vaucluse Springs, Stephens City, Va., near Winchester.

alexandria, va: i'm extremely disturbed (if i'm correct) by the fact that Delta is charging more for tickets not booked on their website. is this going to be a growing trend for other airlines too?

Craig Stoltz: I think the Delta plan (to charge $1 per segment for ANY TICKET not booked via its own Web site) is a toe in the water. All lines are doing things--offering special incentives, miles, even special prices occasionally--for Web bookings. Why? This prevents them from paying high fees to the Computer Reservation Systems, which are skyrocketing (but which they own!). I think they're trying $1 to see what happens; if the public accepts it, I think additional lines offering richer incentives/harsher penalties are inevitable.

Washington, DC: When would be a good time of the year to visit Paris and the rural area of France? How much approximately will it cost for a two-week visit during that time of the year for a couple. How should I go about Hotel hunting and making reservations?

What about Amsterdam?

Craig Stoltz: Everyone I know says Fall is the best time--no summer crowds, no summer fires (in the rural mnts), lower prices, no American schoolkids whining. Fall airfares should be $400; hotels should be available at $100 per night; renting a house or apt., if you want to stay in one place the whole two weeks (nobody I know who has done this regrets it) can bring lodging and food costs down significantly. Unless you're backpacing or hosteling, a couple should budget $1,000 per week (plus airfare) for a comfortable time.

Washington, DC: I'm curious about these new "tag-team" pairings of airline's frequent-flyer mileage programs. What, if any, fallout will there be for travelers?

Craig Stoltz: In the short terms, benefits to folks in the USAir/American orbit are pretty good. As a USAir flyer myself (they offer lots of service from BWI and National), I like having access to American's first-rate program. Continental/NW folks may find some benefits too. But, long term, it's hard to see how the alliances can lead to anything but higher fares, at least on some routes. DC area flyers are lucky: Three airports and many airlines serve us--and Southwest is a powerhouse out of BWI--and these forces will combine to serve us well. Smaller cities will, I suspect, not be so lucky.

Arlington, VA: I took a flight to Miami recently with my wife and seven year old son. I hadn't flown coach in a long time and was shocked at how close the seats were. I haven't gotten any bigger, so I'm assuming airlines have actually narrowed the spaces. I found it nearly intolerable (I'm six feet tall, hardly a giant), especially when the passenger in front of me put their seat back. Craig, when will the airlines simply start stowing passengers in the baggage compartment?

Craig Stoltz: Truth told, the airlines haven't made physical adjustments (at least that I'm aware of): They're just finally filling all the seats. A six-footer is OK if he or she can turn sideways and use the space in a vacant middle seat; when three people are abreast, it becomes all too clear how close and small the seats are. Unfortunately, there's no hope for a change--unless people stop flying because it's too uncomfortable, or unless they take Greyhound instead (!), there's no economic pressure on them to give us more space.

Rosslyn, VA: I read your article about travel agents going under because the airlines have been cutting their commissions. I tried using the Web as a virtual travel agent but have gone back to employing a real, live human being-type travel agent. Fortunately, I found an agent whose service and knowledge can't be beat. I think it would be tragedy if agents like him left the business. Is the future all black for travel agents (and their customers)?

Craig Stoltz: Agents like the one you describe will become invaluable. Unfortunately (one guy's opinion here) when times were good, too man agencies hired young people to read numbers off computer screens rather than training people to provide customer service, find creative solutions, etc. The people who can do that will become one of the most valuable assets a leisure traveler can have. Frankly, I haven't found one myself, and I've tried half a dozen in the past 5 years.

arlingotn, va: To what do you mostly attribute the u.s. airlines' perfect safety record in 1998 ? better technology? better awareness of problems?

Craig Stoltz: Better luck. Tragedies don't operate on 365-day cycles. Five and 10-year trends are more meaningful. To be fair, FAA scrunity folling the (I believe) Swissair crash may have brought more problems to lines' attention, but that's just speculation on my part.

Arlington, VA: A couple of weeks ago I tried to board a United flight for Seattle with a carry-on duffel bag and was told it was "too big" under the airline's "new restrictions." It really wasn't much bigger than a backpack, so I don't understand what the problem is. My question is: Do you see this issue becoming a bigger and bigger problem within the industry and what will it mean for me, the ocassional traveler?

Craig Stoltz: United's at the front wave of those enforcing new carry-on restrictions. This isn't a question of policy, it's physics. Since so many plans fly full now, there simply isn't enough room for everyone to carry even two regulation bags. I think it provides incentive to pack light, which is a good thing. I do wish we'd see the airlines handle checked bags better in this circumstance, but unfortunately the numbers of lost/mishandled bags are staying the same. Pack light or stow it. It's not all that hard.

Upper Marlboro, MD: I've always been curious how Southwest Airlines can offer such cheap round-trip fares between the East-and-West coasts, (and how readily other airlines seem to want to match or beat them on some routes). How can prices keep tumbling on these "sale fares" and what is the airline's cost to fly?

Craig Stoltz: A few things about the SW formula: They have the fastest turnarounds (deplaning/emplaning) in the business, letting its craft be more productive (usually by one round trip per day) than other airlines. They also fly out of less expensive airports, so their operations cost less. They also use fewer different kinds of craft, so their training/maintance/compliance costs are lower. I love the low-fare lines, and wish SW had a powerful ally. I love ProAir; if you're flying to Detroit, the BWI-Detroit fight is cheap, easy and clean. And you land right downtown, in an old, underused airport.

Adams Morgan: I haven't heard much recently about people doing "throw-aways", where they buy two RT tickets at a lower fare, then chuck the other halves, so they can beat the sometimes exorbitant fares some airlines are charging on some routes. Have the airlines really cracked down, or does this practice still go on?

Craig Stoltz: People still do it, and it's a neat way to get around the airlines' restrictions. Travel agents can be penalized for issuing these tickets, and some have been. But if you buy the tickets yourself, in two separate transactions, I don't think you can get caught. I'm not sure what the penalties are if you get caught, or whether anyone caught has ever taken this to court. A strong argument can be made that, once you purchase a ticket, you can do anything you want with it, including not using it. The airline won't penalize you if you simply don't use a ticket you buy, for instance. Any lawyers out there want to weigh in?

Germantown, MD: My husband is reluctant to fly on AirTran since the tragic Florida Valujet crash. I keep telling him that these airlines all use the same manufacturers. Isn't that true? Does he have any reason to be so concerned?

Craig Stoltz: It's true airlines fly basically the same hardware, but that's not the big concern. It's how it's serviced, maintained and operated. Since AirTran has been flying, I've heard horror stories and good stories (as I do about every airline; I keep a drawer of correpondence from fliers, who often copy us into their disputes with airlines). The risk of accident on the very "worst" lines is miniscule; it's irrational not to fly AirTran thinking it's more likely to crash. But that's math. Most people seek comfort, and will want to see a longer, smooth track record from AT before flying.

rosslyn, va: should we expect to see even more mergers on the horizon? any ideas on who's next?

Craig Stoltz: I think the domestic lines may be all merged out for this phase; a lot of it seemed to be driven by the me-tooism that pervades air carriers. Of course, TWA may ally with a carrier or join one of the tag teams, but that would be funny to watch, since it has had its economists and PR folks spouting off about how alliances are anti-competitive and anti-consumer. If they cave into an alliance, they'll have some explaining to do.

Silver Spring, MD: I'm always amazed at how airlines can offer air travel to Europe more cheaply than flying to the West Coast. What gives?

Craig Stoltz: Air travel is not priced based on underlying costs, such as fuel, time in air, cost of the craft and crew, etc. Seats have become commidities, like agricultural or industrial commodities, priced at whatever the market will bear. When you see low published prices, be aware that the plane--whether to Denver, Toronto or London--is probably loaded with business folks who pay 3 to 10 times the cost of a budget seat. Each airline has people opening and closing seat openings in each price category by the hour, sometimes by the minute. If you see a good fare, snag it. It's likely to be gone pretty soon.

Rosslyn, va: just a personal experience - i've found many of the airline websites - usairways and southwest in particular - to be too cumbersome to be useful. i prefer to just call up the airline or a travel agent and talk with a HUMAN BEING.

Craig Stoltz: Yes, I find some airlines sites prety cumbersome too, though I don't include SW in that group. I find it pretty easy to find out what a fare is and figure of whether I want to buy it. USAir just uses the Travelocity/Sabre booking engine, though it's a bit more bafflesome. Prediction: Airline sites will get easier and easier, since airlines have so much incentive to get you to book there. Folks with bad sites will understand that they are losing revenue and increasing their costs with a bad site. This could be one of the engines of Web site perfection.

Fairfax, VA : I want to fly into Paris and out of Rome three weeks later (this summer). What is the best way to schedule this kind of trip? The internet does not seem to be as helpful here as it is with round-trips. Thanks!

Craig Stoltz: What you're describing is what's known in the trade, in a rare colorful and descriptive bit of jargon, as an "open jaw" itinerary. Most Web sites permit it, though you usually have to click "deeper" than a standard round trip to let it know what you've planned (try Travelocity, Expedia, Preview Travel; I think all can do it). Pricing can get very hinkey, as you often have two air carriers to deal with. Make sure you shop any price you get against at least two sources: a travel agent; and against reservationists with BOTH airlines (not just the one that can quote its partners' fares). As yesterday's story on alliances point out, each partner in an alliance usually prices its seats differently.

Arlington, VA: Craig--

Is there any chance that BA or United, both of whom offer multiple daily flights to London, will offer a daytime flight? I think there are a couple from JFK (not counting the Concorde) and one from Boston, but I'd really like having such an option from Dulles.

Craig Stoltz: I've heard only that the daytime-to-Europe service is an experiment, and that demand for it will drive additional gateway cities. I have not heard about whether it's successful economically out of NY/Boston, only that it's made certain people happy. Of course, customer satisfaction alone does not drive airlines route decisions.

Alexandria, VA: My husband and are would like to tour Italy in April for 10 to 12 days. We were interested in a package tour. What company, tour, must do's would you recommend?

Craig Stoltz: My only advice is general: Try to figure out why you want to go to Italy and choose a tour company based on that. I know a lot of people who have been very disappointed with the Great Buildings/Great Museums/Great Show tours of many European countries, as they tend to give you just enough of a taste to make you want more. If you love art, focus on an art tour. If you're history buffs, look for someone who specializes in Italy's fascinating, multi-layered history. If you seek light activity--hikes in the open air, again that should drive your decision. Avoid everything-for-everyone, and you'll avoid disappointment.

That's all the time we have today. Thanks to all of you who shared their time with us on this MLK day. Next week, in the Sunday section, we preview Spring Training vacations, we head to Angkor Wat and we'll talk about declining air service to the Caribbean. See you for our chat next Monday!