Khaalis: Hamaas has been telling city officials . . . that he's going to fight and that he's going to get the murderers (of the seven Hanafi Muslim persons four years ago) and all those involved and all the conspirators and all the helpers. He told the judge . . . every official who has come to the house, he's told them. He's told the newspapers. He's told everyone. So, we knew it. And everyone that knows him knew it.

Whitaker: Why, because he keeps his word?

Khaalis: Right. We know that once something like that happens the Muslims have to have kisaf . . . You would call (it) revenge. If someone does something to you, a law gives you the opportunity to do the same to them (in) Islam. Our book. Retribution.

Hanafi means upright . . . If someone took a little time and got the right book and would read it, they would know more about Islam.

Whitaker: When I first heard about the Hanafi Muslims it was in the context that they were not violent. They believed in peace and harmony and did not believe in terrorism and so forth. But now it seems to have changed. What happened?

Khaalis: Let met ask you something, do you believe in peace and love and harmony and so forth?

Whitaker: Yes.

Khaalis: Yes. Okay two little girls.

Khaalis : Ok. Would you like to come home and find your little girl in trib, foam on the mouth, drowned?

Whitakers: No, I wouldn't

Khaalis: A little violance would stir up in the you wounldn't it?

Whitaker: Tes.

Khaalis: Okay. We're human beings. That's the way Hamaas came in and found four babies stacked up in the tub, foam coming from the mouth.

He went upstairs and fund my older son in the prayer room with his brains blown out. He was in the room, he found my other son with a coat tied around his head, shot in the head. He found my daughter coming down the stairs bleeding profusely. She was covered with blood.

He went to the basement, he found BeeBee down there covered with blood. And he found the other baby, in the sink, shot, and then drowned. Drowned in front of her mother. And the little boy was beaten and she heard his screams when they took her upstairs. Heard the little boy screaming and the man beating him, before they drowned him, 'cause he was old enough to fight back. He was there. How what would stir in you?

Whitaker: It would certainly stir anger . . . I certainly would want ot do something about it. So, well, what about what about civil laws?

Khaalis: We obey the laws of the country as long as it doesn't contradict with our Muslim law. Muslim law comes first. We went by the laws of the country. We participated in bringing the people to trial. We did not get justice.

We did not get justice because they were not given death. And by Muslim law, that's the punishment.

Whitaker: And did he, Khaalis talk this over with you before they started out yester?

Khaalis: No. I don't help him make decisions like this. This is his decision (There) was nothhing to talk over. We all knew he was going to.

Whitaker: But it's a mission on which he could very well die.

Khaalis: I know that. And we're ready to fight to the death also, in this house. And if it means us fighting to the death, also, so be it. Babies and all. So it's not, it's Hamaas, it's the whole family that's involved. We're all involved.

Whitaker: The reason I asked if he talked with you before he left is because he was going out on this mission to fight to the death then I would think, if I were going to do that, I would want to say goodby to my family.

Khaalis: Oh, he did. All of us. Everyone. The whole family. We were all here. There's nothing to hide. We're not hiding anything. He's not robbing a bank. This is nothing to hide. It's our law. We do this openly. That's why he would tell them that he was going to do it. Because that's the way it's done.

Whitaker: Were you a Christain or anything like that before you were a Muslim?

Khaalis: I was a Catholic.

Whitaker: And what cause you to embrace the Muslim faith?

Khaalis: I left the church, I was out of the church before I became Muslim. Because Christianity was empty for me. There was too much . . . it just wasn't true. You would read one thing but it wouldn't be put into practice and so it held nothing for me. Empty, just empty words.

Whitaker: And so how did you come to know about the Muslim faith?

Khaalis: We were very, we were searching different things and . . . in Islam we found it all.

Whitaker: What are your own feelings about the prosecutors in the trial (of those accused of the Hanafi murders).

Khaalis: Oh, they did their job. Yeah. And the police, also. The police did a very good job. The policy, they went out, they left their families, they went to Philadelphia, worked undercover, brought the killers back and they give us protection during the trial, they (were) around the house, and we appreciate that. And the prosecutors, they did their job.

The judge was a different story. Number one, he put Hamaas out of court and held him in contempt. He refused to let him testify. He said that Hamaas was too emotional.

Whitaker: Under Muslim law that would be the judge's fate?

Khaalis: The judge has to die like answer to the creator. So we leave that all of us have to die and he has to in the hands of Allah.

Whitaker: What about the other men? I mean, why can't their fate be left in the hands of Allah, as well?

Khaalis: On, no. Because our law tells us in Islam, one thing Muslims don't do, murder women and children. They broke every law there was. Women and childre. They came in. We had one shotgun in here and it had a lock on it and they key was hidden, 'cause it was only for purposes of protecton.

Oh, no. Nothing's going to exonerate the murderers, no matter what you say or anyone else says. The murderers have to die. If they don't lie then there are others who can die in their place. If they want stand-ins - Hamaas has told them - if they want stand-ins there are . . . stand-ins in Islam. So, these people - they're been murdering, they've been murdering all over the country. why don't they put that in the paper?

Whitaker: I just, know, I've been listening to Hamaas talk on TV or on radio. He was saying this morning that after the members of the family were killed he did't receive any condolences from the government, none from the community. I mean, nobody made a phone call to say we're sorry to hear that your family got killed.

Khaalis: Nothing. Yes, we have our two neightbors. Those two neighbors did.

Not government officials or anyone from the City Council or anything like that, or any ministers. But people from all over the country and all over the world wrote. But nothing from the Washington . . .

Whitaker: So the whole family is in complete accord with what is going on?

Khaalis: Complete accord.