CARLISLE, PA., AUG. 5 -- It was Day 4 of the contract holdouts of defensive tackle Dave Butz and running back Keith Griffin from Redskins training camp, with no apparent movement in either negotiations.

Griffin's agent said he and General Manager Bobby Beathard are talking "every day."

Doug Hafner, Griffin's Miami-based agent, said he does not believe it's unreasonable for a reserve like Griffin to be holding out. "Our proposal is based on the fact that Keith is a role player," Hafner said. "They don't agree with what we want."

Butz, meanwhile, is not returning phone calls.

The Redskins interrupted their usual meetings this afternoon to listen to a presentation on the new National Football League rules by Jack Reader, the league's assistant supervisor of officiating.

The Redskins received a scare at their scrimmage tonight when rookie offensive tackle Ed Simmons was injured.

Simmons, who has been working with the first team in place of the injured Mark May, has a bruised left knee, and, by favoring that knee, he slightly injured the right knee tonight. "The right knee buckled," said team doctor Charles Jackson. "He's had a lot of heavy work. He is leg-weary."

If there's one thing that's noticeable about Redskins scrimmages this summer, it's that the players appear to be hitting harder than the last two training camps. One person who has taken note is Coach Joe Gibbs.

"We had a lot of good, hard, physical work," Gibbs said after the scrimmage. "I thought our guys were serious."

Cornerback Barry Wilburn leveled wide receiver Eric Yarber in perhaps the most bone-crunching hit of the night. Running back Dwight Garner had one long run, but also fumbled once.

"Dwight's smart, sharp, athletic and makes big plays -- what we like. He's a fumbler -- what we don't like," said Gibbs.