Jonathan Capehart

MR. CAPEHART:  Good afternoon.  I'm Jonathan Capehart, opinion writer for The Washington Post.  Welcome to Washington Post Live and another in our series on "Race in America" co-produced with the "Capehart" podcast. 
What's the first thing you think of when you hear the name Billy Porter?  Is it his groundbreaking Emmy-winning pray tell in the FX series "Pose"?  Is it his showstopping voice that has garnered him a Grammy and a Tony Award?  Or is it that tuxedo gown he wore to the Oscars in 2019 that broke the internet?  He's not an overnight sensation but a star in the making since he first set his eyes on Broadway as a child.  In his memoir "Unprotected," Billy Porter takes us on the long, painful, and unstoppable journey that took him from the poverty he grew up in in Pittsburgh to the fame that envelops his life now.  And with that, please welcome Billy Porter.
MR. PORTER:  Hello, Jonathan!  I'm so excited to be here with you.
MR. CAPEHART:  It is so great to talk to you again.  And you know what?  I went back into my--into my records, and discovered the last time we talked was May of 2020.  
MR. PORTER:  Yep.
MR. CAPEHART:  And at no point did you mention that you were writing a memoir.  
MR. PORTER:  I didn’t?
MR. CAPEHART:  Were you already working on it when we talked?
MR. PORTER:  Oh, my god.  I've been working on it, I mean, truth be told, since an agent came to me in 2014.  I had my first play, "While I Yet Live," debut off Broadway, and an agent came to see it.  A book agent came to see it, and he called me up and he was like I think you should write a memoir.  So, from 2014, until I turned in the book earlier this year, I have been working on, in some form, trying to put my story down on paper, and do it in a way that felt, you know, of service--you know, how can I be of service.  Like, that's what my life has been about, my intention.  
I got that from Oprah, and Iyanla Vanzant, Dr. Maya Angelou, they were talking one day on the show.  They were talking about service.  And I was in the gutter.  I was just in the bottom of everything.  And I--you know, and that change, shifted--that perspective change shifted everything in my life.  And so, you know, I wanted to make sure that the book could serve the people and be some sort of healing, because, you know, art is healing.  You know, and I recall--go ahead. 
MR. CAPEHART:  Billy, well, art is healing, but in reading the book--and I read it cover to cover--
MR. PORTER:  Yeah.
MR. CAPEHART:  Through the process of writing this book, did you heal?
MR. PORTER:  I am healing.  It is a continuous process.  I am so much better than I was.  And I still have far to go.  You know, but what I'm realizing is that it's an everyday commitment.  You know, healing, you recommit yourself--I recommit myself, I should say--to the healing of myself every single day, in every moment of every day, and sort of trying to change the habits and the systems that will align with what healing looks like.  You know, one must change behaviors and habits that keep you bound in order to heal.
MR. CAPEHART:  So, Billy, there are a few things early on in the book, especially your early story growing up in Pittsburgh, I think for a lot of people who might think they know you and know your story, are going to learn some and be a part of some really painful dark moments in your early life, particularly the molestation you suffered from your stepfather, Bernie. 
MR. PORTER:  Yes. 
MR. CAPEHART:  The process of writing about that, how'd you get through it?
MR. PORTER:  Well, COVID really helped this book, because, you know, initially, it's like, overcoming adversity, yeah, yeah, yeah.  But like, what's the point, right?  You know, and what I figured out was healing my trauma through my art.  And so to sit down and to have the space to write, because we were all shut up in the house and then COVID is going on, you know, it was harrowing to not only revisit that, the abuse part, which is literally--has been literally an everyday thing from the time it happened when I was seven, all the way to discovering in the writing about living through the AIDS crisis that I had not processed that either.  
And so I found myself in trauma therapy during COVID for various reasons.  And what I learned was that in order to process--first of all, we all must process our grief and our trauma.  We have to learn how to process it.  And the only way to do that is to go directly through it, as opposed to trying to push it down, as opposed to compartmentalizing, which I got really adept at doing.  You know, for the first time in my life, I had to actually look at it in the face and go through it, and it was harrowing to say the least, but also healing, you know?
MR. CAPEHART:  Yeah.  Well, Billy, I want to get to--in reading--in reading the book and going with you through all of these traumas, you're also writing about the fact that you go to see "The Wiz," and it sets your world afire.  You realize that's where I want to be.  And what’s really funny, I went to see "The Wiz" as a kid, and I was mesmerized.
MR. PORTER:  You did?
MR. CAPEHART:  But not to the point where I wanted to be Billy Porter.  But I was just mesmerized to see people who look like me on stage--  
MR. PORTER:  Yes!
MR. CAPEHART:  --in the same way that it hit you.  But also, in reading your book, Billy, I had to remind myself in these early chapters that you weren't a grown man.  You were a child.
MR. PORTER:  I was a child.
MR. CAPEHART:  You were a kid doing all of these things.  Go ahead, Billy.
MR. PORTER:  And I have to say to you that that was the thing about trauma therapy that cracked everything open for me, right?  My therapist was like--and I've been in therapy for a while, but it was the first time that I realized--right?--I was a child.  Like, one of the exercises in trauma therapy, for me, was self-compassion.  You know, like, how do you--because you can't heal, until you can have self-compassion for yourself.  
And one of my exercises to get to that compassion was to look at pictures of myself at that age.  And just sit and look at them and be uncomfortable looking at them and understand and retrain the neural pathways in my brain to understand that I was a child.  It's so interesting that you picked up on that, because that was--that was one of the catalysts to me understanding how to heal myself.  
Because the abuse made me feel like I was an adult, the--because I was gay.  And you know, there's this--there's this idea that like, you know, especially with Black people in the Black church, it's like, oh, he was molested, so that's why he's gay.  It's like, no, there's no excuse for me being gay.  I was born that way.  I was born gay.  So, let's have that conversation over here and then have the new conversation, which is, and I was molested because I was gay, because the predator understood and knew that because of my queerness the sexuality that he was introducing me to, I wouldn't respond because I'm gay.  You know, and so I would respond to that.  He knew that.  That's called preying.  That's called, you know, predatory, you know, grooming, all of that stuff. 
And so for me to finally look at myself--you know, because when I said I wanted to stop when I was 12 years old, which is in the book, you know, because they were saying I was an abomination from the pulpit, you know, homosexuality was an abomination, and I had to look up what that meant.  And realize, oh, I think I'm participating in behaviors that are abominable.  So, I just said let's stop, and it stopped.  And inside of that confusion, I felt like, oh, well, I had the power to stop it all the time, and I didn't.  And I'm grown, I guess.  There's nobody around who seems to be able to take care of me.  So, I'm--who has the tools to take care of me, you know, so I guess I have to take care of myself.  So, I will, you know and--go ahead.
MR. CAPEHART:  And, Billy, to that point, though, your mother early on taught you to--separate from that, and I think this came into play before Bernie came along--that you had to--you had to depend on yourself.  
MR. PORTER:  Yes.
MR. CAPEHART:  Do not--be able to take care of yourself, don't depend on anyone, and for certain, you're not going to get anything for free.  And if someone does offer you something for free, there is always a price to pay, and that stuck with you. 
MR. PORTER:  Yes.
MR. CAPEHART:  But I want to--I want to bring up advice that your aunt Dorothy gave you, and it's here on page 54.  You write--you write, "Can't have nothing if you don't work for it.  I learned my work ethic from the generations before me.  My aunt Dorothy always told me quote, 'If you stay ready, you don't have to get ready.'"  And that mantra comes throughout the book when you are auditioning for all sorts of plays and musicals, starting from when you were a kid in Pittsburgh, and making your way all the way through to Broadway in New York City.  Talk about how if you stay ready, you don't have to get ready.  How did that manifest itself?
MR. PORTER:  Well, the manifestation is what you see before you.  The life and the career that I'm having right now is because I'm ready.  Because I spent 35 years in this business getting ready when everybody had decided that my time was up, that as a Black, gay, flamboyant, as I've been labeled, artist, there are only so many spaces that you are allowed in, sir.  And I had traversed those spaces by the time I was 24, you know?  And I had--I had been pigeonholed into this sort of magical gay fairy clown situation that--and in my book I call it the "Millennium Coon Show"--that I was not happy with.  That's not--you know, it's like I always knew that there was more than that. 
So, I detached from what I took myself out of the trajectory of where everybody else was placing me and I took the road less traveled.  Now, when you take the road less traveled, that's usually without a spotlight on.  So, I spent many, many years, decades in fact, working.  You know, I went to--when I couldn't get a job in the theater, or in film and television, or my music career imploded, I went to graduate school at UCLA and the screenwriting program, professional program in screenwriting.  I started directing.  I started writing.  I started creating on another level, on a deeper level.  You know, it required me to get in touch with my own voice.  Dare I have my own voice?  Dare we have our own voices as Black queer people?  How dare you stand up and speak your truth?  You know, for a long time, we weren't allowed, or we were told that we weren't allowed. 
And so, you know, it was--it was my time in the valley.  And my aunt Dorothy saying, stay ready--so when I win an Emmy--first Black man, you know, to win an Emmy--
MR. CAPEHART:  Right.
MR. PORTER:  --first Black gay man to win an Emmy, and people start asking me, oh, well, I hear you write or I hear you direct, I literally was like, psh, and here are all and here’s all the stuff I've been working on for the last 20 years.  There's this, there's--you know, and I find it in every aspect.  You know, when I was--when I was trying to build my career, and I had nothing, and I would watch someone like Queen Latifah, for instance, have a talk show, I was like, oh, that's another revenue stream.  I should learn how to read a teleprompter.  This is me having no--you know, and so then I show up, and somebody asks me to host something, and I can read a teleprompter.  You know, they asked me out of the blue, you know, to host the ABC red carpet.  They didn't know whether I could do it or not.  
MR. CAPEHART:  Mm-hmm. 
MR. PORTER:  You know what I mean?  And they just--they were just hiring me for a personality.  I got there the first day of rehearsal and, you know, we were in rehearsal and the director said, well, we've given you two interviews, you know, because we don't want to overwhelm you.  It's your first time out, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.  And I was like, okay, no problem, in my mind going y’all don't know how ready I am for this.  You know, and like by the time we left rehearsal, I was given 16 interviews. 
MR. CAPEHART:  Mm-hmm.  So, Billy, Billy--
MR. PORTER:  I started with two.  I left with 16, because I was ready. 
MR. CAPEHART:  Yes, because you were ready.  Now, you've been in this business, as you've said in our conversation now and as you write in the book, for 30 years, for three decades, a little more.
MR. PORTER:  Yeah.
MR. CAPEHART:  And you've had peaks and you've had valleys, and valleys where you write that you didn't work, you didn't get a gig for 10 years.  It is in those moments when people with big dreams, when they are tested the most as to whether that dream is real or worth pursuing.  
MR. PORTER:  Yes.
MR. CAPEHART:  You've had peaks and you've had--and you've had valleys.  What is it that kept you--kept you going?  Is it that, as you write in the book, you knew you had a gift, you knew you had a talent, and by damn you were going to make sure that people heard it?  And if so, where did--how did you keep that going?  Because that's hard.
MR. PORTER:  Yeah.  Well, first of all, I knew that I had a gift.  I knew that God had given me a gift.  And it was not just a gift.  But it was--it's a calling.  It’s a responsibility.  You know, growing up in the Black church, dare I say a ministry, right?  And so understanding that my purpose on this Earth is bigger than my ego is what kept me going.  
MR. CAPEHART:  Mm-hmm. 
MR. PORTER:  It was like, do you want to be a celebrity, or do you want to be--or are you an artist?  Like, are you an artist who is contributing to the world, to the growth and evolution of the world?  Or do you just want to be a TikTok star?  Like what--there's a different mentality.  It's a different intention?  You know, it goes back to that service conversation, you know, that I saw Oprah Winfrey and Iyanla Vanzant and Maya Angelou talking about.  When I say it changed my life, it changed everything.  And from that moment, that was what kept me going.  It was like, oh, this is my service and the world needs to catch up with all this Black boy joy, and I'm going to keep doing this until they do.  And I never imagined that the catch-up, that the glow-up would be what it is, what it's turned out to be.  That wasn't--this is not what I was expecting, at all. 
MR. CAPEHART:  And you--and you know what, Billy, I can't believe we are running out of time.  But we can't have this conversation about your life and your career without talking about another big theme in your book, and that is the angels in your life.  From the beginning until the end, you name, you call out people who helped you along the way, from the family whose name I can't remember, but you name them, the family that drove you back and forth to school for a year, every day?  
MR. PORTER:  Hartung.  Yes. 
MR. CAPEHART:  Right on through to--was it Bill, Bill Butler.
MR. PORTER:  Yes. 
MR. CAPEHART:  Who you met--who you met on a on a cruise, and then talked to him for a year.
MR. PORTER:  On a gay vacation. 
MR. CAPEHART:  You have a gay vacation, didn't talk to him for a year.  And then when you needed representation, you just called him out of the blue, and he remembered you, and he--you--he has been your agent for 30 years.
MR. PORTER:  For 30 years.
MR. CAPEHART:  For 30 years.
MR. PORTER:  Yes.
MR. CAPEHART:  Talk about the importance--talk about the importance for people to have angels in their life. 
MR. CAPEHART:  You know, it takes a village.  And you know, quiet as it's kept these days, none of us do any of this alone.  None of us do any of it alone.  None of us can make it in this world alone.  And we may feel like we're alone, and we may feel like we're doing it all by ourselves, but like, you know, I wouldn't be standing here if it wasn't for the people that I called out by name in my book, and I needed to call them out by name.  Because so often, we land on the negative.  And I wanted to make sure that there was just as much talk about the powerful, positive energy that was also counteracting in my life simultaneously. 
You know, it made me the human being that I am today.  And I just want to make sure that I continue to pay that forward, you know, with the young people that are coming behind me.  You know, it's like people need guidance, people need angels, honey.
MR. CAPEHART:  Mm-hmm.  You write--you write in--at the beginning of the book about how you're on a flight.  And I came--I don't remember if it was the flight attendant.
MR. PORTER:  It was-- 
MR. CAPEHART:  Yeah, a Black gay man came up to you and like poured his heart out to you in terms of what you meant to him.  
MR. PORTER:  Yeah.
MR. CAPEHART:  And you thanked him, but you also write that he doesn't know how meaningful those words are to you.
MR. PORTER:  Yeah, you know, it's a really hard time that we're in right now.  And our power lies in our courage to stand up and speak and fight, not only for ourselves, but for each other.  And that is all I've ever wanted to use my art to do.  I'm not a politician.  I'm not a doctor.  I'm not a lawyer.  I'm an artist.  And the only way that I can contribute is in that way.
You know, Toni Morrison has a quote that I love so much that I'm going to read it right now to you, for you and all your people.  And she says, "This is precisely the time when artists go to work.  There's no time for despair.  There's no place for self-pity.  There's no need for silence.  There's no room for fear.  We speak, we write, we do language.  That is how civilizations heal."  
This country needs a healing.  The entire world needs a healing.  And whatever I can do, through my art to contribute to that is what I'm going to do.  And so to hear from someone on the outside that they are receiving my work and my intention and my work in the spirit in which it's being given is everything to me.  It’s everything to me.
MR. CAPEHART:  Billy, in the two minutes that we have left to close out, what's your message to young queer Black men or anyone struggling with being accepted for who they are? 
MR. PORTER:  It's not about acceptance.  It's not about tolerance.  Those are verbs that require validation from something or someone on the outside of you.  Validate yourself, love yourself, and then you teach people how to love you back.
MR. CAPEHART:  Those are phenomenal words to end on.  And that is literally the message of your book from beginning to end.  Singer, actor, author, director, Tony, Grammy, Emmy Award--and I'm waiting for your Oscar--Emmy Award winner Billy Porter.
MR. PORTER:  It’s coming at some point.  Jonathan, this is too short.  We've got to do it longer next time.
MR. CAPEHART:  All right.  We will.  I hope to see you soon.  Billy Porter, thank you so much for coming back to "Capehart" and Washington Post Live.
MR. PORTER:  Hope to see you soon.  Thank you.  Love you, babe.  See you soon.  
MR. CAPEHART:  All right.  And as always, thank you for joining us.  To check out what interviews we have coming up, head to WashingtonPostLive.com and--to find out more and to register.  Once again, I'm Jonathan Capehart, opinion writer for The Washington Post.  Thanks for watching "Capehart" on Washington Post Live.



https://podcast.posttv.com/manual-transcripts/6470d750-344b-4751-a07d-b13219d7cc9d_6312438e46e0fb00084abd9c-transcript.txt

Washington Post Live

Opinion writer Jonathan Capehart talks with newsmakers who challenge your ideas on politics, and explore how race, religion, age, gender and cultural identity are redrawing the lines that both divide and unite America.

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In this Washington Post Live conversation from Dec. 7, 2021, Billy Porter discusses his memoir, “Unprotected,” and opens up about his journey from the poverty of Pittsburgh to becoming the Tony, Grammy and Emmy-winning singer, actor and producer he is today.

Billy Porter’s unstoppable journey

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Fashion

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Home & Garden

The Washington Post Home &amp; Garden section provides tips and advice for homeowners interested in home improvement and gardening. Resources and coupons for homes and gardens in DC, MD and VA. Guides for organizing, cleaning, planting and caring.

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Inspired Life

KidsPost

Games, news, contests, puzzles, and fun activities for kids.

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Parenting

News, advice and essays that impact parents everywhere.

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Travel

Expert travel advice for destinations around the world including hotel, restaurant, and vacation tips and deals. Find Washington DC, Virginia and Maryland travel information, including web fares, Washington DC tours, beach/ski guide, international and United States destinations. Featuring Mid-Atlantic travel, airport information, traffic/weather updates.

Lifestyle

Washington Post Lifestyle gives you the latest fashion and beauty trends, home d&eacute;cor pointers, food and recipe ideas and reviews, relationship advice, travel ideas, wellness tips and much more.

Media

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Morning Mix

The Washington Post's Morning Mix blog covers stories from all over the nation and world.

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National

The Washington Post's national news coverage. Get the latest national news, featuring national security, science and the courts. Read breaking national news headlines from across the U.S.

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Foreign Policy

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Intelligence

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Justice

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