Julie Depenbrock

Jonathan Capehart

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﻿Jonathan Capehart:: I'm Jonathan Capehart, and welcome to "Capehart." Two years ago, on May 26th, George Floyd was murdered under the knee of a Minneapolis police officer. It happened on a busy street in the city council district represented by Andrea Jenkins. Two years later, after the tumult of the demonstrations that rocked Minneapolis and cities across the country, Jenkins now leads the Minneapolis City Council as its president. In this conversation, first recorded on May 19th for "Washington Post Live," in the days after 10 African-Americans were allegedly killed by a white supremacist in Buffalo, Jenkins put Floyd's murder into a broader context. 

Andrea Jenkins> And so there's just this constant barrage of tragedy that continues to, I think, shape the psyche of Black America, and certainly Minneapolis is a part of that. 

Jonathan Capehart:: Jenkins made history in 2017 as the first out transgender Black woman elected to office anywhere in the United States. We talk about her historic rise and her message to trans youth and Black youth trying to make sense of the world around them. 

Jonathan Capehart> Minneapolis City Council President Andrea Jenkins, welcome to "Capehart" on "Washington Post Live." 

Andrea Jenkins> Thank you, Jonathan. How are you today? 

Jonathan Capehart> I am fine. And it is great to see you. It's been, I think, maybe a couple of years since we've had a chance to talk to each other, so thank you very much for doing this. I want to jump into a little bit of news here, because on May 18th, former Minneapolis police officer Thomas Lane pleaded guilty to a second-degree manslaughter charge in the killing of George Floyd. The announcement came just a week before the second anniversary of George Floyd's murder. How is Minneapolis doing as we approach the second anniversary and your response to that plea deal of Lane? 

Andrea Jenkins> I'll answer the latter question first. I mean, I wasn't surprised by the plea deal. It is likely going to be the same outcome with the other two officers, and I base that primarily on their conviction at the federal level by the Department of Justice that found them guilty of denying the civil rights of George Floyd. And so, I, you know, anticipate that the other two officers will likely take a plea bargain, as well. 

Jonathan Capehart> Mm-hmm. And how is Minneapolis doing as we approach the second anniversary of George Floyd's murder? 

Andrea Jenkins> Minneapolis, as a whole, you know, I think we're starting to see some light, a very dim light at the -- way down on the end of the tunnel, but we are seeing it, and even though we've still been challenged by so many national headlines, still -- you know, the murder of Amir Locke -- the killing of Amir Locke, I should say -- and the death of Daunte Wright, and that officer was also found guilty. There continues to just be these high-profile cases, and I think, you know, like every city in America, Minneapolis, particularly its Black residents, are reeling from the events in Buffalo just this past weekend, and so there's just this constant barrage of tragedy that continues to, I think, shape the psyche of Black America, and certainly, Minneapolis is a part of that. But I do sense spirits are a little brighter, and the low feels a little bit lighter as we approach this two-year anniversary, acknowledging the death of George Floyd. 

Jonathan Capehart> So, President Jenkins, then, since you do say that there's a light at the end of the tunnel -- a dim light, but a light -- what do you think is driving that? Is it the conviction on federal charges of those officers? Is it the vote that the people of Minneapolis made in the last election by giving the mayor more power over the running of the city? What is driving that light? 

Andrea Jenkins> You know, I think it's a combination of things, Jonathan. You know, certainly the vote that gave the mayor -- I think -- I'm not sure if it gave the mayor more power, as it were, but it certainly points to the chain of responsibility. And so, I think it really identifies the mayor as the executive in our government structure, and so, consequently, we do know where the responsibility lies. Prior to this last referendum, there was always this debate whether the council had this kind of authority or the mayor had that kind of authority, and so I think this referendum really clears that all up and solidifies this executive authority. Minneapolis had been sort of an anomaly in government structures around the country, and that shift kind of brings us more in line. So, that relieves a little pressure. I think, you know, we've seen some changes in public safety. So we instituted a project -- you know, a mobile Behavioral Crisis Response Team -- that responds to mental-health crises. That, hopefully, will help to take some of the responsibility of armed police officers having to respond to mental-health crises, and that program is working really well. You know, right after the death of George Floyd, we banned chokeholds in the city. We thought we banned no-knock warrants, but the death of Amir Locke really illustrated that there is a lot of nuance in these kinds of policies, and so we're working to clear that out. And also, you know, the city has been sued by the Minnesota Department of Human Rights as well as the Department of Justice, and the Minnesota Department of Human Rights came out with their report after a two-year investigation of the department, and it's pretty scathing. But, again, it also is similar to getting a medical diagnosis. So now we understand what the problems are, and I think and I hope that this is going to give us a roadmap of how we can really address these problems, and I think it will give us, also, the leeway to make the kinds of systemic changes that are necessary to improve public safety in the city of Minneapolis. 

Jonathan Capehart> Well, President Jenkins, I'm glad you brought up the report, because I was about to ask you about that. In the report, it says that the Minneapolis Police Department engaged in "pattern or practice of race discrimination with respect to officers' use of force, traffic-stop searches, citations, and arrests." A moment ago, you said that this report was like getting a medical diagnosis. Did any of the findings in the report come as a surprise to you? 

Andrea Jenkins> Certainly not to me, and I think many, many African Americans in our community, there was no surprises in the report. It was shocking to see it all laid out in a very long -- I think 76- or 71-page report. 

Jonathan Capehart> That you have right there with you. 

Andrea Jenkins> Yeah. And, you know, some of the shocking parts were the surveillance of Black social-justice organizations, of Black elected officials, like myself, being surveilled and -- 

Jonathan Capehart> Were you -- I'm sorry, President Jenkins, were you one of the people surveilled by the police department? 

Andrea Jenkins> That is not in the report, and I certainly can't say for certain that it was myself, but -- 

Jonathan Capehart> Okay. 

Andrea Jenkins> There are not a lot of Black elected officials in the city of Minneapolis, so, you know, I certainly think it's possible that I could have been. But, no, the report does not single me out as being surveilled, but that level of subversion was really surprising. But the data that they compiled, the allegations of racism and sexism in the department, I think many people have known that inside the city as well as in the community for a very long time. But again, it documents everything, it gives us the opportunity, I believe, to work towards some real, sustainable reforms. 

Jonathan Capehart> Let me get you on a couple of other things that are in the report quickly. The report said the department will work with the city to negotiate a consent decree. Do you have any insight on where things stand on those negotiations, who's involved, maybe what kinds of police reforms are being discussed or most needed in Minneapolis? 

Andrea Jenkins> Well, I can say that we've just begun the process of negotiating those terms, and we anticipate, hopefully, coming to some kind of agreement in the early fall. It's primarily our city attorney's teams that are at the table in those negotiations, along with the attorneys from the Minnesota Department of Human Rights. And so, you know, they are sort of hammering out the details. We do want to try to have some public engagement around this issue to talk about what kinds of reforms are necessary. We recognize, and as you know, the aftermath, one of the outcomes of the aftermath was the resignation of our police chief, and so this gives us an opportunity, I think, to do a nationwide search to find a new police chief. The mayor has proposed creating an Office of Public Safety, which actually was on the ballot as a referendum, failed. I think the mayor recognizes, and I think many of us recognize, that we must do a wholesale reimagining of our public-safety system in this city. And so, the mayor is proposing a Office of Public Safety that will have a commissioner that would actually -- a new police chief would have to report to this commissioner. It would also bring all of our public-safety mechanisms together -- so 911, fire department, this mental-health crisis team that I spoke to you about. We've created what we're calling the Office of Violence Prevention, and those are community-based groups that would -- that do go out into community and try to respond on the scene when there's traumatic community events, but also to be proactively trying to interrupt violence before it occurs, trying to get in, you know, if a violent event happens, trying to intervene with those groups to prevent retaliation, et cetera. So, bringing all of those modalities under one roof to have a full-on Office of Public Safety that's recognizing that, you know, we have to have safety beyond policing. We can't just rely on the Minneapolis Police Department to do all the things that our society has somewhat turned its back on, in terms of mental-health facilities, in terms of substance abuse, which, you know, is fueled by the big pharmaceutical companies that have now been rightfully sued and given some accountability for their role in perpetuating substance abuse in our communities. But we're asking the police department to deal with all of these kinds of things, and that's not what they're trained for. That's not what they do best. And so we're creating these systems around it to lessen that role and give them more of an opportunity to do what they are trained to do. Hopefully, it'll take some of the load off of those officers and allow them to be more humane, more professional in their approach in dealing with community members. And I want to say something about that, Jonathan, because we know that police can be respectful and do the jobs the way they are supposed to, because we just witnessed it in Buffalo, New York. The man who murdered 10 people and shot 13 people, you know, he ended up being handcuffed and taken to jail and has due process of the law. So they know how to do their jobs. They don't perform -- they don't give that level of professionalism, humanity, compassion, empathy when it comes to Black communities. 

Jonathan Capehart> You're saying something that has been echoed, you know, from positions like yours of, you know, elective office, but also everyday regular folks who are just wondering, why is it that the white mass shooter ends up being arrested and, you know, if the person is African American or a person of color, they somehow end up dead with, as you say, without due process? You know what, President Jenkins? Let's talk about you for a moment. It's always hard being "the first." It's still stunning to me that you were the first out trans Black woman elected to anything in our country, and now you're the president of the Minneapolis City Council. What has this experience been like? 

Andrea Jenkins> Well, to be quite honest with you, Jonathan, it is still kind of stunning to me some days, but it is an enormous responsibility, but it also is a role that, you know, I feel like I've been preparing for, for quite some time. I've been through more leadership development programs than you can shake a stick at, and, you know, I did an interview a couple weeks ago, and I talked about the fact that I'm a firstborn, and I was born to two firstborns. So, my mother and my father were the first children of their parents, and then I was their first child and grandchild. And I'm, like, the oldest of all of my first cousins. So, I had a leadership role growing up in my family structure, and I think that has translated over time, but, you know, it really is, when I think about the enormity of being a city council president in a major city like Minneapolis at a time as momentous as what we witnessed with the murder of George Floyd, governing through a pandemic, you know, it's a huge challenge, and I think my experience as being a Black person in America, as being a trans-identified woman who has overcome many obstacles to even get elected, that it has prepared me to be in this role, and I think there's some kind of, you know, spiritual -- I don't know what to call it, but that has placed me in the center of this sort of maelstrom right now for a reason. 

Jonathan Capehart> Right. I was just about to ask you, do you feel in some way that you were chosen for this moment, that this is -- what you're doing now is beyond you, the fact that you're in this position now? 

Andrea Jenkins> Agreed. Agreed. And, you know, I'm not sure who would have done that choice -- the goddess, the god, the, you know, serendipity, coincidence -- I'm not sure what it is. You know, I grew up in Chicago, Jonathan, and I grew up in the '60s. I'm a child of the 1960s. When I was very young, we lived about 10 blocks from where Fred Hampton was murdered, and so I kind of grew up in this whole political environment around me and grew up pretty politicized and really learning and understanding around issues surrounding Black culture and oppression and systemic injustice, et cetera, et cetera, learning from, you know, community elders that were in the community, like Haki Madhubuti, who is an institution builder in Chicago, a poet, and one of those institutions was Third World Press. They published the work of Gwendolyn Brooks, and he was a mentor. I worked on Harold Washington's campaign as a very young 18-year-old. So, all of those little experiences have kind of, I think, helped me to see this moment and to remain steady, because I think that's what this city needs right now, and try to keep pushing forward. 

Jonathan Capehart> Couple more questions for you. You know, there's a teen mental-health crisis in this country, particularly among transgender youth. We have seen untold numbers of anti-trans laws being introduced, even passed, in states across the country that do serious harm to transgender youth and their families that are trying to support them and help them. What is your message to transgender youth in this country as an elder? 

Andrea Jenkins> Yeah. So, we've seen up to 300 bills introduced across the country and certainly here in Minnesota, too. So even though we do have a Democratic governor and a Democratically controlled House, so none of those bills have passed, thankfully, but about 112 of those bills have passed across the country, and we hear a lot about the Florida case and the Texas case and, you know, Arkansas and Mississippi and other places, and not only that but also this leaked abortion decision of trying to -- potentially overturning Roe vs. Wade, I think, is also an attack on trans and gender-nonconforming folks and youth. What is probably not known is that over 50% of trans and gender-nonconforming-identified people get their healthcare through Planned Parenthood. And so that attack is really an attack on who has access and control of one's bodies. And many of the bills that are being introduced and being passed, as you know it, are saying that not even parents have access and control over their young people's bodies, and it is an atrocious attack. But I really, in my heart of hearts, Jonathan, believe that it is a red herring. It's really bringing up these sort of cultural issues to gin up the right-wing base, to create this hysteria where none exists. Transgender people have been using the bathroom since the beginning of history, and we're human beings, and we're going to continue to do that, and we have to do it in public, because we have to live our lives outside of our homes like everyone else. I would say to young trans and gender-nonconforming people that you are changing the world. You are creating new ways of understanding and being in humanity. Keep doing what you're doing. We have come such a long way since the days of Stonewall, that was that whole riot and movement. The gay liberation movement was initiated by Black and brown, trans and gender-nonconforming and bisexual and lesbian and gay folks, who have shifted and changed the paradigm. And the reason, I believe, that we are seeing these attacks is because we are making progress, we are making changes, and so I see you. I know that this is really difficult, young people, but the horizon is bright because I know from experience that every day, we continue to make progress to move humanity forward, and trans and gender-nonconforming people are 100% absolutely a part of that forward march. And I'm here fighting for you every day. Hold on. And as we heard many, many years ago, it gets better. 

Jonathan Capehart> And one more question for you, in the little bit of time -- very little bit of time we have left, what's your message to the young Black people in Minneapolis, who have seen a lot of tragedy and heartbreak in these last two years, even after the murder of George Floyd? 

Andrea Jenkins> You know, it's almost the same message, Jonathan, because the young Black people in Minneapolis, those young kids, they are the ones who shook up the world, who started the marches, who started the uprising, who are pushing elected officials, like myself and others throughout the country, and even standing up themselves and being elected. So I would tell them the same thing -- you're changing the world. You are doing -- you are -- you have taken the baton of this long march towards social justice, towards Black liberation, and you are bending the arc. And keep doing what you're doing. I got your back, I love you, I support you, and we shall overcome. 

Jonathan Capehart> Right. Andrea Jenkins, president of the Minneapolis City Council, thank you so much for coming to "Capehart" on "Washington Post Live." 

Andrea Jenkins> Thank you for this opportunity, Jonathan. It's so great to see you and talk to you. and I love the new show and the podcast, so thank you for inviting me on. 

Jonathan Capehart:: Thanks for listening to "Capehart." It's produced by Julie Depenbrock. We'll have new episodes for you every Tuesday. I'm Jonathan Capehart. You can find me on Twitter at @CapehartJ.  


https://podcast.posttv.com/vitac-transcripts/47aa4821-1ebd-4c4b-9ec9-49ddc24f856d_628bf79c46e0fb0008ad1265-transcript.txt

Opinion writer Jonathan Capehart talks with newsmakers who challenge your ideas on politics, and explore how race, religion, age, gender and cultural identity are redrawing the lines that both divide and unite America.

Cape Up: a Washington Post opinions podcast

In this conversation recorded on May 19 for Washington Post Live, Minneapolis City Council President Andrea Jenkins discusses the two-year anniversary of George Floyd’s death and the murder of 10 African Americans at a grocery store in Buffalo.

The ‘constant barrage of tragedy’ shaping Black America

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