Stephanie Clifford, better known as Stormy Daniels, doesn’t speak much with the news media. But she recently made an exception on late-night Dutch television, discussing President Trump, his former attorney Michael Cohen and how this year changed her life in a rare, 40-minute interview.
Daniels’s appearance on “ RTL Late Night with Twan Huys” contains her first at-length public comments since Cohen’s guilty plea in federal court last month. In the interview, which aired Thursday night in the Netherlands, Daniels also spoke about feeling in danger given her massive public profile and how her role in the national political drama surrounding Trump has affected her marriage and her young daughter.
A full transcript, slightly edited for clarity, is below. Read our coverage of the interview here.
Twan Huys: Hello. Hi. Welcome. Take a seat. You traveled today to the Netherlands.
Stormy Daniels: I did.
Huys: It’s good to say, I think, we taped this show and we didn’t pay you to do this interview, right?
Daniels: Absolutely not.
Huys: No. Do you ask money for interviews?
Daniels: Not usually, no.
Huys: Can you tell me how you are since this all happened with you and Donald Trump?
Daniels: It’s been a pretty crazy ride. I’d say if I had to use one word, it would be “intense.” Some days are really exciting and fun. I would be lying if I said that they weren’t. Some days are downright scary. Most, it’s been stressful. Lots of traveling, lots of interviews, lots of questions, lots of scrutiny.
Huys: We’re going to talk about all of this. Scrutiny, especially. What happens to you?
Daniels: Just a lot of people thinking that I’m doing this for the wrong reasons or that I should keep my mouth shut or some people think I should be doing more, that I’m not doing enough. Can’t make everybody happy, right?
Huys: Something happened this afternoon. I met you in a hotel in Amsterdam.
Daniels: That sounds dirty. [audience laughter]
Huys: I was not the only one in the hotel.
Daniels: That’s even dirtier! [audience laughter]
Huys: Okay, we were talking to each other and a guy stepped up to you and he thanked you for what you do for the country.
Huys: Does that happen a lot?
Daniels: It does. It happens a lot.
Huys: What did he say to you?
Daniels: He stopped me and said, “Excuse me, as a fellow American, I just wanted to say thank you for what you’re doing and you’re very brave and keep up the good fight.”
Huys: So he is probably a Democrat. What do Trump supporters tell you? Are they aggressive?
Daniels: Only online, strangely enough. I’ve had very few confrontations in person. But when I do appearances, I would say 75 percent are not Trump supporters and it’s really surprising that there are so many Trump fans that come out and they have their red caps. Probably a solid 25 percent of the people in the crowd are Trump supporters but they’ll come out and just say, “I just want to meet the woman that the president liked.” I’m like, what? I’ve actually had people come up and get a picture and say, “I don’t agree with what you’re doing but I just have to get a picture with someone who has met the president.” Like, that’s such a weird . . .
Huys: And they say “liked” — as in past tense.
Huys: Yeah. You are leading a strange life, as you say, but could one say that you are a fugitive right now?
Daniels: Well that implies that I’ve done something wrong. So I’m going to —
Huys: Did you?
Daniels: — say no, absolutely not. But some days it feels like that, for sure. People show up, and even if it’s for the right reasons, still a big group of people, even they’re fans, can be quite dangerous. I travel with bodyguards and stuff now and just having them around sort of deters people from trying anything.
Daniels: But I did have an instance where I got kind of cocky and thought, “Oh, I don’t really need the” [points to image of bodyguards on screen] — there they are.
Huys: Your guys?
Daniels: The dragons.
Huys: That’s how you call them, the dragons?
Daniels: Yeah. That I didn’t need them, that I could somehow go out without them because I hadn’t really had an incident at this point. This was a couple months ago. I was home in Texas and wanted to go to a concert and went out and slipped in early while the lights were off and nobody really noticed but in between bands, the lights come up and all it took was one person saying, “Hey, can I get a picture?” And then it just became a frenzy and it was all positive, no one was being negative, but they just started grabbing at me and it became really dangerous really quickly. So now I’m a lot more careful about my surroundings. You don’t realize the toll that it can take on you mentally and physically after months and months of always looking over your shoulder.
Huys: Let’s start at the beginning. You were 17 years old and you started as a stripper?
Huys: Why did you decide to be in that profession?
Daniels: [laughs] You’re going to laugh. I was very serious into horses, which I still am, and I wanted to be a veterinarian and specialize in equine medicine. I had to move out of my house. It was unfit situation for me to be in. My father left when I was four, but my mother was mentally unstable. It was just not a good environment. I went to a college prep high school that required me to take eight hours a day of college preparatory classes and I really wanted to get into vet school. I needed to move out and I had to make some income and I wanted a job that I could make enough money that I could only work on the weekends and I didn’t have to sell my horse. [laughs] They’re expensive to feed.
Huys: Right. So you had your horses and you were stripping in the weekends?
Huys: And your mom — did she know anything about this, or wasn’t she interested?
Daniels: I didn’t speak to her for the first several months after I moved out, and by the time I turned 18, I mean, she knew pretty soon. I grew up in Baton Rouge, La. It’s a pretty small town. I honestly can’t remember if I told her or if someone else did, but by the time she found out I was 18 and there was really nothing she could do.
Huys: Sounds like a tough childhood you had.
Daniels: Yeah, it was.
Huys: Is that why you were hardened and got [sic] the woman that you are today — a tough woman?
Daniels: Maybe so. I spent a lot of time alone. I’m an only child and like I said, I was very much into school and kind of a nerd and always riding my horses, which is kind of a solo sport. You know, you’re on your horse, out, whatever. I really had to learn to take care of myself and I grew up in sort of a bad area and I didn’t have nice things at school and I didn’t have a nice car, nice clothes. I wasn’t destitute but definitely on the lower end so I didn’t have the fancy stuff and so I got used to people picking on me early on.
Huys: So why didn’t you choose for the veterinarian side that you were looking for? Why was it, in the end, stripping and porn?
Daniels: Because I figured out how to make the most amount of money doing the least amount of work. [laughs] No, I’m kidding. That’s my snarky answer. The real answer is I actually did get a scholarship to Texas A&M and to Mississippi State but it still cost money to go to school, to move and buy books and food and all that stuff and I honestly couldn’t afford it, so my plan was to dance and stuff for a year and save up and then go back and —
Huys: You never left.
Daniels: I never left.
Huys: Did you ever think as a star in the adult industry that you ever would meet Donald Trump?
Daniels: No. Wasn’t even on my radar.
Huys: You met him at a golf tournament in 2006. Was it love at first sight?
Daniels: It was love at never sight. [laughs] No. Well, maybe for him. I can’t speak for him.
Huys: But were you attracted to him?
Daniels: No. I just knew him from his television show, which I actually didn’t even watch.
Huys: “The Apprentice.”
Daniels: “The Apprentice,” yeah. I didn’t watch a lot of television. I still don’t. I just knew of it because it was pop culture at the time. “You’re fired.”
Huys: Did he contact you?
Huys: Was he looking for you?
Huys: Could you tell us how that happened, the meeting?
Daniels: Everybody’s heard this story a million times. I was at a golf tournament. We sponsored a hole. [laughs]
Huys: You sponsored a hole?
Daniels: No pun intended. [laughs, audience laughter] So when the celebrities would come through, you would meet. It was all for charity and publicity and stuff like that.
Huys: What was the opening line he used?
Daniels: He didn’t. I was introduced to him. He was very polite.
Huys: Somebody arranged it.
Daniels: At every stop on the course, the celebrities would get a bottle of water from whoever was sponsoring that area and get a snack or take a photo or whatever. Part of being in the tournament if you were a player was to say hello to everybody. So he was introduced to me and some of the other girls from the company I worked at. I just remember that it was like, “Oh, this is such-and-such — she’s a contract girl — and this is such-and-such and this is the owner of the company, Wicked Pictures.” And the owner introduced me as, “And this is my other contract star and director, Stormy Daniels.” I remember he looked and was like, “Oh, you direct. That’s really cool.” And that was it, he moved on. Later on he came back through the gift room.
Huys: Do you know if he knew your work?
Daniels: I don’t think that he did. If so, he played it off really well, which, he’s an actor so maybe.
Huys: So how from there did you move into a hotel room with Donald Trump?
Daniels: He came through the gift room, met everyone and had his assistant or whatever say, would I be interested in having dinner. And that was that. And I can’t really go into any of the other details because of ongoing litigation as you know.
Huys: So just to make this clear to the audience: if you answer any question further about what happened that night in the hotel room, what will happen?
Daniels: It could compromise my case, which we thought was going to be wrapped up by now. But — I don’t know if people know or are familiar — Michael Cohen was brought up on criminal charges and my case —
Huys: The lawyer of President Trump.
Huys: We’re going to talk about that. We’ll get there. But just to establish this: You don’t know him. You don’t —
Huys: Trump. I mean, at the time when you him at the golf tournament?
Daniels: No, I didn’t know him. I knew of him.
Huys: Right. You’re not especially attracted to him, but still when he invited you, you thought, “Well, maybe it’s a good idea to have dinner with him,” and from there on, I think it’s what you call a one-night stand, right?
Daniels: Yes, I guess so —
Huys: You had sex?
Daniels: — No, it wouldn’t be a one-night stand. We spoke after that.
Huys: So, but you had sex once or more times?
Daniels: I can’t answer that. [chuckles]
Huys: Did you expect ever to be a sort-of national figure in American politics? Because that is what is happening now, right?
Daniels: Absolutely not.
Huys: Are you this national figure that maybe could be a figure of historical proportions?
Daniels: Definitely, and it still feels so weird and uncomfortable to say that.
Huys: Because you think that is what will happen?
Daniels: It’s already happened.
Huys: Well, he is still the president of the United States, so nothing has changed for now.
Daniels: Yes. Right. But everybody suddenly knows who I am.
Huys: Are you happy to be that figure in America?
Daniels: Ask me in a couple months.
Huys: Why in a couple months?
Daniels: We don’t really know what’s going to happen. I’m happy with the choices I’ve made. I’ve come to terms with them. At first, it was a struggle. I really just got tired of being bullied and came forward not thinking of how grandiose this was going to become. It was basically just me saying, to quote my attorney Michael Avenatti, “Basta,” you know, “Enough.” “You leave me alone or I’m going to tell my truth.” Then I started to feel sort of in danger and there’s that whole thing about hiding in plain sight. If I’m public, they can’t really do anything to me because everyone would know that it was them.
Huys: So this is a kind of security, insurance policy, what you have now —
Huys: — sitting here, doing interviews now and then. Because you haven’t done many interviews.
Daniels: No, for legal reasons. But I’ve still been out in the public. I did the Anderson Cooper interview, which was very important to me, because I was offered a lot of money for that first story.
Huys: Did they pay you?
Huys: CBS “60 Minutes,” the broadcast.
Daniels: They do not pay anyone.
Daniels: I was offered large sums of money to come forward and tell my story. I would be lying if I didn’t say that was tempting. But in the end I wanted everyone to know that I was telling the truth and wasn’t doing it for the money. And so I chose to go with Anderson Cooper and make nothing but to get my story out there, for safety reasons and just because I honestly felt like I was doing the right thing.
Huys: This was broadcast in March this year.
Huys: But the truth is also that you tried to sell your story in 2011, right? To a magazine.
Daniels: I didn’t. Someone who I thought was a friend and who was working for me at the time told everybody, and one of which was my ex, I believe was one of the people who was in cahoots trying to leak it. Also, keep in mind, back then, he wasn’t the president. Had no idea he was going to be the president. It was just a silly little tabloid story at the time.
Huys: Did he get paid at the time or did you get paid for —
Daniels: I did not get a single penny. No.
Huys: Then, also interesting is in 2016, just before the elections — President Trump, he was at the time the candidate for the presidency — what happened just before Election Day? It’s like two weeks before, there was this contract that you have signed to not talk about this at all.
Daniels: That’s part of what I can’t discuss at all right now, just because of the ongoing litigation.
Huys: Can you tell me why you signed it?
Daniels: Because I didn’t want any of this to come out. One of the common misconceptions that’s really, really frustrating and annoying for me is that a lot of people, even one of the clips that you showed there, says that I’m a former adult actress or a former adult entertainer. I was never former anything. I had a very successful career and as recently as when the story broke and even kind of now, I was actively performing, I did one movie every month, I was one of the highest-paid and most successful adult film directors ever in the history of the adult film business. The story broke in January, I think, is when it got leaked. A week later was the AVN Awards where I already had 17 nominations.
Huys: So you were successful. You didn’t need all of this.
Daniels: Definitely not.
Huys: But what I don’t get is, why would you sign a contract that forbids you to talk about this whole episode and you —
Daniels: Because who wants to talk about having sex with Donald Trump? [audience laughter, applause]
Huys: Point taken. But the other thing is, also, you got $130,000 we know now from Donald Trump or his lawyer Michael Cohen. So was it also for the money?
Daniels: Come on. $130,000?
Huys: That’s cheap?
Daniels: That’s the other thing that’s really frustrating. If I was going to blackmail somebody, add some f---ing zeros to that. [laughs, audience chuckles]
Huys: So why didn’t you?
Daniels: Blackmail it? Because it’s illegal! [laughs]
Huys: No, why did you accept $130,000 while for him it was so important because two weeks before Election Day, you could have blown up his campaign, I think.
Daniels: I just wanted my life to be nice and quiet and I was happy and I had a child and like I said on “The View,” my husband had no idea that I had ever even met Donald Trump. I met my daughter’s father three years after the last time that I spoke to Donald Trump. A lot of people have criticized me and said, “Well, why didn’t you tell him?” Do you give your current partner or someone you go out on a date with a list of everyone that you’ve ever had sex with or had dinner with? No, people don’t do that. Besides, let me go back to this: it’s Donald Trump! I wanted my daughter’s father to like me. The best way to make somebody not go on a second date is to say, ”Oh, you know that Donald Trump guy? He’s been in me.”
Huys: Yeah. Okay. [chuckles, audience chuckles] So when did he find out, your husband?
Daniels: When the story broke.
Huys: What did he say to you?
Daniels: Nothing for a long time.
Daniels: Yeah, it was not good.
Huys: How is your marriage now?
Daniels: It’s been a struggle. The story broke a couple weeks ago that he filed for divorce and all that stuff.
Huys: Is that because of all of this?
Daniels: The stress of all of this, he didn’t sign up for that, and I totally understand where he’s coming from. It’s really terrible. We’ve been together for almost 10 years, only married for three, and we have a daughter. We had a great relationship. It’s been a great nine years but this is a lot for someone to deal with and it’s a lot of pressure and he didn’t sign up for that. He didn’t ask for that. People are coming at him. He can’t turn the television on or even the radio in the car —
Huys: Because it’s always there.
Daniels: — without hearing something about his wife.
Huys: What about your — your daughter is 7 years old, right?
Daniels: She’s 7, yes.
Huys: Does she know what happened?
Daniels: Well, she doesn’t know what sex is. So that’s another big problem is that every time my name is mentioned, it’s prefaced with “porn star,” which is really kind of a messed up thing because if I had any other job in the world, it wouldn’t be prefaced with my job title. It wouldn’t be “accountant Stormy Daniels” or “television host Stormy Daniels.”
Huys: But did she ever ask you before, “Mom, what are you doing? What kind of work are you doing?”
Huys: What do you tell her?
Daniels: She knows very age-appropriate information. I’ve never lied to my daughter. I don’t believe in that —
Huys: Did you say you’re an actress?
Daniels: She knows that there are television shows and movies that are for grown-ups, whether it’s because of bad language or it’s a scary movie, she knows that there’s stuff that’s inappropriate for kids. Everybody who has a kid has one that’s come into the room while you’re watching something and pause it and go, “No, no, no!” She knows that mommy writes and directs and is sometimes in movies that are for grown-ups. She doesn’t know what sex is, therefore she doesn’t know what porn is. The second that she’s old enough and knows what sex is, the very next thing out of my mouth is going to be, ‘You know those movies that mommy makes? Sometimes they have sex in them.’
Huys: Yeah. What about now? Do you have a relationship with her? Can you still talk to her?
Daniels: Oh yeah!
Huys: Is she angry because of what happened?
Daniels: She’s not angry. She misses me. She’s a very, very special and tough kid. She’s very unique in that manner. Her life has actually remained fairly normal because we live kind of far out in the country. She also rides horses and stuff. I talk to her almost every day. It’s a little difficult with the time change here, but I talk to her almost every day and I go home tomorrow and she’s come out to visit me on the road. She’s sort of used to being with one parent at a time, because her father is a musician.
Huys: And a porn star as well?
Daniels: He did porn for a little while, but he’s a musician by trade. He’s a very successful musician. As a matter of fact, the last time I was here in Amsterdam was when he was on tour and I came to visit him, when he played a show here.
Huys: You told me this afternoon — in the Milky Way, right? In the Melkweg.
Daniels: Right. That’s the last time I was here. But he’s a musician by trade, so she’s used to, “Oh, daddy’s going to be on tour for three months, so I’m home with mom.” Or vice-versa. So this isn’t that out of the ordinary for her.
Huys: We’ll talk further. But first of all, there is a Dutch model who also knows Donald Trump very well, up close and personal, I would say, and Trump asked her to organize the Miss Netherlands and Germany competition. Our special reporter, Lex Uiting, talked to her. Let’s have a look.
[segment breaks for video clip]
Huys: Kim Kotter. Just to make this clear: Was it your free choice that night in 2006 with Donald Trump?
Daniels: Yes. Yes.
Huys: This is not like a “Me Too” situation?
Huys: He didn’t force you into anything.
Daniels: No, I’ve been very adamant about that and really irritated the few times that someone has tried to force my story to further their narrative for something that it’s not, because I want to be very clear that that’s not it. My issues came much later.
Huys: Was it a fun night?
Daniels: No. It was entertaining and interesting and regrettable but —
Huys: Why was it entertaining?
Daniels: At the end of the day, I still met Donald Trump, who was this goofy reality TV star. A lot of the conversation has already been printed so I can’t really repeat it but everybody knows that there were some moments where it was pretty funny.
Huys: Can you tell us or not?
Daniels: Google it. [laughs]
Huys: What we know is you have been there, no one is denying that, and there was a contract and you were paid $130,000. But still President Trump says, as do his lawyers, nothing happened that night. Rudolph Giuliani, the former mayor of New York, now the attorney of President Donald Trump —
Daniels: Is he still his attorney?
Huys: I think so.
Daniels: He goes through attorneys faster than I go through underwear. [audience laughter]
Huys: So what he says, which is serious: “Stormy Daniels, she has no reputation. Why should we believe her?” What would you say to him?
Daniels: He’s a twit. How sexist and rude to say that my job defines my character. I might be an actress or a porn star but it doesn’t mean I don’t know right from wrong and it doesn’t mean that I don’t know the truth from a lie. Also, he made himself look like a total ass because he forgot that President Trump’s current wife has also been a nude model and photographed in pornographic photos with other women. So, hypocrite much?
Huys: Does it make you angry? Are you hurt by his statements?
Huys: I don’t know.
Daniels: [raspberry noise with lips] No. Look at him. Absolutely not hurt.
Huys: But all of them are telling the world, “She’s totally unreliable. She’s only in it for the money. She doesn’t care a bit. She’s a total liar.”
Daniels: Right, and now which one of us looks like a total liar because Michael Cohen just confessed last week that I’ve been telling the truth all along.
Huys: So this is a total in this whole story about you because exactly what you say, Michael Cohen was the personal lawyer of President Trump. So this is like a political bomb that exploded. Is this one of the best days in your life?
Daniels: Yes, and I will never forget that moment because I have thick skin. I’m very confident in who I am and I know right from wrong and I learned a long time ago, growing up, that the most important thing was to be able to look myself in the mirror and do what I felt was the right thing and what was best for me and my family without hurting anyone else. That’s never been an issue. So the horrible things that people say — and I hope everybody follows me on Twitter because it’s very entertaining — the horrible things that people say to me like, “You’re a slut, you’re a whore, you’re trash,” you’re this, you’re that, doesn’t bother me. You can say, “I don’t agree with your choice of a job.” Well, it’s not your choice and I respect your decision. You don’t have to watch it and I certainly won’t ask you to do it. That’s totally fine. The only thing that ever really bothered me was people saying that I lied or was in it for the money. First of all, if I was in it for the money, I would have made a lot more. Because that just makes me look like a poor businesswoman and I’m pretty sure I’ve established myself in the adult entertainment industry as a very successful businesswoman. So that’s very insulting if they said I was doing it for the money. And second, that I’m a liar and that I made everything up. I am not a liar. I’ve built my whole life on telling the truth and being honest because that’s just how I choose to live. So last week, I only had a couple of hours’ warning that Cohen was going in and was expected to admit to some of these charges. Didn’t know if one of them was going to be in relation to me or not. He was up on a bunch of different things. I was out of the country and you know, the time difference, and I fell asleep waiting for my attorney to give me a call. I fell asleep and I woke up and that [feeling of] “Oh — oh no” and I look at my phone and I have all these missed texts and messages and everything was exploding and the first text and call I actually got was from one of my bodyguards.
Huys: Did you open a bottle of champagne?
Daniels: I opened a bottle of wine because I was in Italy. Champagne gives me a headache, so I was drinking wine, which — I am normally not much of a drinker. But the first phone call I got was from one of my bodyguards, Travis, and he was in tears and I was in tears. And it was just this moment where he was like, “Everyone knows you’re not a liar.” And that’s all I ever wanted. I didn’t think it would hit me as hard as it did but I broke down into sobs. It didn’t realize how much it had affected me over the last several months. It’s been eight, nine months of every single day, people saying, “You’re lying, you made it up, you just wanted to have sex with him and he turned you down so you made this up,” or “You’re in love with Donald” — just the most ridiculous things you could imagine.
Huys: Is it still emotional to talk about this?
Daniels: A little bit. I mean, but now it’s kind of emotional because it’s a good thing. As much animosity as I have toward Michael Cohen for some of the things that he did — which, I can’t go into details but they will be coming out soon, obviously, after the court case is settled I can say a lot more things —
Huys: Is the story worse than we know now?
Daniels: There’s a lot of things that people don’t know.
Huys: So there is way more than you have been telling till now.
Daniels: Yes. I can’t say.
Huys: Is there a videotape of that night?
Daniels: I can’t, I can’t comment on anything, but I —
Huys: But your lawyer, Avenatti, has sort of suggested that there is maybe —
Daniels: I would also like to point out —
Huys: — way more material.
Daniels: — that Michael Avenatti has other clients that have information that I am not privy to what he knows and doesn’t know from other clients. As we all know, it is not okay for him to tell me.
Huys: Okay, so if you cannot be specific but you —
Daniels: I will just say —
Daniels: — and all I will say is that there is a lot of information that has yet to come out and I think a lot of it is going to very shocking and it will make sense as to why they were so desperate to come after me.
Daniels: I also don’t know what Michael knows from his other clients.
Huys: I understand. But from what you know, and we know now, that there was a contract and you have been paid and you have not been lying about this stuff.
Daniels: And Michael Cohen flipped and told the truth, which I never thought he would do, which is amazing.
Huys: We got that. But is there something you know now that we will know soon that could bring down this presidency?
Daniels: Yes, there is stuff that I know, and I would say it’s a 50-50 shot at this point. Which is pretty scary odds if you’re the president.
Huys: Well, also, I’m realizing that if what you are saying now is true, that we could be talking to somebody who brings down the president of the United States, which is almost unheard of.It almost never happens.
Daniels: I don’t think it’s ever happened. I think the closest we’ve come in the history is president resigning because they knew there was a possibility.
Huys: What are we talking about? How soon will this happen?
Daniels: I will say, I don’t think Trump will resign. I think he’s much to arrogant.
Huys: You are his worst opponent, aren’t you? Are you a little bit like him? Do you like a good fight?
Daniels: I love a good fight.
Huys: And you never back off?
Daniels: I never back down. One of my slogans has always been “I don’t start fights, but I’ll certainly finish them.”
Huys: And you win?
Daniels: Not always, but I’ll put up a good fight. Nobody wins all the time and that’s one of the reasons why I can’t say anything. There’s always that chance and it’s a terrifying — and when I really stop and think about it, like when I’m in my hotel room alone at night or I’m FaceTiming with my daughter and I hang up and I really stop and think about it, there is still a chance that a judge, if this goes to trial or whatever happens, will take their side and as we all know, every time I speak, even today, the things I’ve said today, could cost $1 million. I could be fined at this point maybe $100 million. Of course, I’d have to make $100 million first, but still.
Huys: But it could silence you. That would put you in a very difficult —
Daniels: They’ll never silence me.
Daniels: No. I might be living in a cardboard box under a freeway overpass, homeless, but I won’t be silenced. Absolutely not.
Huys: I want to try to find out if this a total bluff of you or are you really seriously — and you know about stuff that could come out, evidence that could incriminate this president and it would be the end of his time in the White House.
Daniels: That all depends on the judge. You know what I mean? That’s what so terrifying is you never know. I thought that when I was younger and more naive that the justice system always worked — if you were innocent or you were right, that it had your back — but there’s been too many instances that have happened to me where that is not the case. Obviously —
Huys: If a judge follows what you are saying, when will this come out and when will we see the consequences of this?
Daniels: My next hearing in this case is scheduled for Sept. 10. I think that it might get pushed again, because like I was explaining earlier, Cohen has had the criminal charges that has nothing to do with me and my case is actually considered a civil case, so the civil case doesn’t have precedent. The criminal charges did. Obviously now he’s finished with that but he hasn’t been sentenced yet. So they may delay mine again. So I can’t really honestly answer your question because I don’t have the answer. Hopefully by the end of the year. Could be as recently as in two weeks. Hopefully.
Huys: Are you afraid because you are in this powerful position, maybe?
Daniels: Of course. Of course. I would be really stupid not to be afraid.
Huys: Afraid of what?
Daniels: Of being ruled against, losing my case. Losing my family more than I already have. Just the simple fear of some pissed-off Trump supporter or fan coming after me, doing something stupid.
Huys: So your husband is divorcing you. It’s problematic for your daughter, 7 years old.
Huys: You cannot have a normal life.
Daniels: Yeah, and I may never have a normal life again.
Huys: Right. So is it all worth it, what you’re saying here tonight and what has happened till now?
Daniels: I struggle with that question a lot. Some days I break down and say, “I wish this had never happened, it’s absolutely not worth it.” But I’ve slowly realized and sort of made peace with it and I’m going to say a good 85-90 percent of the time now, I think it was totally worth it. One of my best explanations for that is — and this is one of the really difficult things that people say to me on social media or whatever — is that I need to shut up and go home and take care of my daughter. And that’s very hurtful because up until this happened, I was with my daughter almost every single day. Most of the time I was her sole caretaker. Her dad would be the one touring or whatever. And we had a very, very close relationship and anyone who knows me will tell you that my daughter is very well-adjusted and I was a good mom. So there’s part of me that’s like, “Yeah, I should have just kept my mouth shut and stayed home or just take this mic off right now and walk out of here and go back to my daughter.” But the bigger picture for that is, yeah, I might have given her a normal, happy, traditional home life for the next year or two, but what if things continue with Trump in the White House as they are and he does something really stupid and pushes that red button? Yeah, okay, great, my daughter had a great year or two of her life but maybe this way, she’ll have a great, full, 50, 60, 70 years of her life.
Huys: It sounds like you are — so you are doing this for the future of your daughter and you want to end the fight and you want to bring him down?
Huys: That’s a big task.
Huys: Things are changing, as we just said. Michael Cohen, the lawyer of Trump, has made his statements and everything is changing for you right now, as well. We asked the Dutch correspondent in New York what is changing exactly with you and with the political situation of Donald Trump.
[segment breaks for video clip]
Huys: So this is the correspondent in New York. Everything has changed and suddenly you are being described in some papers as a feminist hero. The New York Times wrote that about you. What did you think when you saw that article?
Daniels: I was surprised and flattered and I don’t always fancy — I don’t really consider myself to be a super feminist. I’m just human and I was just trying to do the right thing. I support women. I think we should be treated equal, all of that stuff. But I didn’t set out trying to change the view of women. This was not a feminist crusade. That’s why I’ve been so adamant about not being attached to the “Me Too.” This is just me as a human being, as an American, as a mother, trying to do the right thing.
Huys: Now you’re saying, “I want to bring the president down because it’s for the future of my daughter and other kids, and he’s a liar and I’m not and he has to go.”
Huys: There is an upcoming interview in the magazine Vogue. They did an interview with you and there is a beautiful picture of [sic] the famous photographer Annie Leibovitz. You’re suddenly now — you’re a big star, right? It’s Hollywood stuff that is happening to you.
Huys: You were also invited on one of the most popular comic shows in the United States, “Saturday Night Live.” Was it fun to be on the show?
Daniels: That was one of the really great moments. When I said that there are some days that are just amazing. Saturday Night Live has been one of my favorite shows for years. It’s one of the only things I actually do watch and TiVo if I’m out of town or I’d come home and binge watch so I was just thrilled when a couple of weeks before they had done a parody of me and it was flattering. Then when I actually got to go on, it was amazing. It was, I mean, I was there and I was like, “It’s not going to get any better than this.” Then when I did get there and there was all the guest stars in that open, I got to meet — it was the biggest cold open they’ve ever had, the most guest stars in a cold open, and then I got to say the iconic, “Live from Sat — Live from New York, it’s — ” you know, it’s just not ever going to get any better than that.
Huys: Yeah. This is all great, but at the same time —
Daniels: No offense.
Huys: No, no.
Huys: Well —
Daniels: You are no SNL.
Huys: Not yet. It could happen. Actually, I’m surprised that you are doing this interview. I’m very happy that you’re here but since the story broke with the lawyer Cohen you haven’t done any interviews in the states. And it would have been logical to me if you would have flown back and been on CNN and say, “Hey, I’m right, you see, I’m not a liar.”
Daniels: Like I said, I just want to be very careful because it would be really tragic to have come this far and say something that could be twisted or edited or manipulated to totally blow my case, that I’ve been through all of this for nothing. Michael Avenatti, my awesome attorney, put all this time and work in and if I blow it because I said something in an interview, or a reporter gets nasty with me and I smack them and go to jail for that [laughs], it could do so much damage. I have to be careful.
Huys: I understand.
Daniels: Just a couple more weeks, hopefully.
Huys: At the same time, it is a difficult time for you because you are being threatened right now. But what happens to you? Are there people coming up to you who are aggressive when you go back to the States?
Daniels: It comes in waves. When everything is kind of quiet, it’s okay, but I think there’s been a new rash of hate because of Cohen’s admission.
Huys: You see that on social media — people really hate you now.
Daniels: People say terrible, terrible things on social media.
Huys: When you fly back tomorrow, how difficult will it be to get back into your country?
Daniels: Getting in? That’s won’t be a problem and I’m not flying into my hometown because I try to outsmart people and —
Huys: So you are thinking about it?
Daniels: I think about it all day, every day.
Huys: I’m asking because I mean, you have an American passport but at the same time, I can imagine that you are the enemy of the state right now, the enemy the president fears most. Is that correct to say?
Daniels: I don’t know. I don’t know what he’s thinking. I don’t think any of us ever know what he’s thinking. That’s kind of the problem isn’t it.
Huys: Recently you were arrested after a gig you had in a strip club. People were filming outside. We can see those images. What happened?
Daniels: I was booked to do my show. It’s the same show that I’ve done every night, thousands of times. I came offstage and took pictures, whatever, and then the undercover police came to my bus and arrested me and said that I had broken the law by touching people. The crazy thing is that we found out later — pretty quickly, I might add — that it was a setup. The undercover officers — who, by the way, were female — in the club, actually, in my opinion, it was entrapment because if you sit at the stage and put a dollar in your mouth and say, “Motorboat me, put your boobs in my face” and I do it, you can’t do that, but that’s exactly what happened. And then they actually stood in line and got pictures with me and bought autographs and then arrested me. So they made sure they bought a Stormy Daniels T-shirt and got their photo taken with me — and then arrested me.
Huys: Do you know who decided to do this? I mean, was it intimidation? Were these people Trump fans or was even the president involved? What happened?
Daniels: There was a link found to a Facebook page by one of the officers that was a Trump supporter. I don’t know how high up it goes. I’m not going to speculate. Who cares. But a whistleblower did release emails between the officers saying that they were going to set me up, that the entire thing was a setup and I didn’t break the law. The law very clearly was on my side. And even if I had broken the law, it was a misdemeanor, which should have been a ticket for about $1,000 written on site. They did this all to try to discredit me and to ruin me but actually it ended up backfiring because they look like unprofessionals. But most importantly, they arrested me for a crime I didn’t commit.
Huys: We haven’t talked extensively about Donald Trump’s wife, Melania. Do you —
Daniels: Nor will I.
Huys: Do you feel guilty for her — ?
Daniels: I won’t discuss her at all.
Huys: Because we know or we can see — I don’t know if there are problems in their marriage. Nobody knows about that.
Daniels: Nobody knows.
Huys: Do you think she has a difficult time?
Daniels: I will not speak for another woman. When she is ready to speak for herself, I will support her.
Huys: So you’re not going to talk about her, probably rightly so because she is no party in this fight you have with Donald Trump, right?
Daniels: Correct. And I also, just speaking generically, do not think that it’s fair to assume what a woman is thinking or feeling in her own relationship. To me, that is ju — you shouldn’t put words in another person’s mouth.
Huys: What would you say, if tonight Donald Trump stepped in here, to him?
Daniels: You’re fired.
Huys: Do you think that you and your story and what happened will lead to his downfall in the White House?
Daniels: I don’t know. I don’t think so. I think that it will be a long chain of events that would cause that, and if anything, I would be the spark, not the explosion.
Huys: You have said that your lawyer has contact with more women that have a story similar like your story.
Huys: If I would ask your lawyer tonight, Avenatti, if this would all lead to the downfall of President Trump, what would he say?
Daniels: He’s a lot more confident but he also has a lot more knowledge and information than I am privy to. You would have to ask him yourself. He’s pretty confident, for sure, but I can’t speak for him.
Huys: What would be your best advice to Donald Trump?
Daniels: Get out while you can. [laughs]
Huys: Stormy Daniels.
Huys: Thank you so much for being here. Thanks for your time.